hCG, hot flash, dry mouth/eyes, anxiety side effects

[rayrock1]

I have been on Test Cyp{100mg/week} with hCG{500-600iu/week} I am experiencing dry mouth, dry eyes, a hot flash {within 6 hours} and anxiety from the time I added hCG to the protocol. My e2 is 49 sensitive test. My e2 without hCG was below 20. I read that some people attribute these side effects to LOW e2, not increasing e2. But I also read on one of the hCG weight loss sites that this is a common side effect with its use. I am currently injecting EOD, to split the dose up.
Do these conditions subside with time or does it mean that do something else?

 

[Ardoc2]

Apparently there is a lot of commonality in symptoms of low E2 and high E2.

 

[bochinit]

Hot flashs and anxiety are signs of high e2.

 

[Tman]

Yes, HCG definitely raised my E levels. Anxiety, sleep issues, and high heart rate would begin with 24 hours. I liked HCGs impact on my mood, so I want to try and restart at a lower daily dose, maybe 150.

 

[NL77]

I’ve been on 54 mg Cypionate twice a week and 10mg DHEA daily for over a year and a half. I’ve been feeling great. I added 400 IU HCG twice a week starting last week and have experience very weird anxiety coming and going randomly that can be very intense. I took 200 IU today as my third dose and may completely stop. I only added it for increased sensitivity and to relax the testicles a bit.

 

[NL77]

I have been on Test Cyp{100mg/week} with hCG{500-600iu/week} I am experiencing dry mouth, dry eyes, a hot flash {within 6 hours} and anxiety from the time I added hCG to the protocol. My e2 is 49 sensitive test. My e2 without hCG was below 20. I read that some people attribute these side effects to LOW e2, not increasing e2. But I also read on one of the hCG weight loss sites that this is a common side effect with its use. I am currently injecting EOD, to split the dose up.
Do these conditions subside with time or does it mean that do something else?

So did your symptoms subside or did you lower your HCG dose?

 

[rayrock1]

I lowered both dosages, the Test Cyp to 91mg/week and the hCG to 500 iu's a week. Even dosed the Test and hCG at different times but still having the issues. Lowering the dosage dropped my sensitive E2 to 41 and my Total Test to 943. I'm starting to think its not an estrogen issue but the way that hCG must interact with the nervous system. My anxiety response is still from 6-18 hours after administration. I will be lowering my hCG dose again to see if that helps. If anyone has any ideas that worked for them, please post. thanks

 

[NL77]

I lowered both dosages, the Test Cyp to 91mg/week and the hCG to 500 iu's a week. Even dosed the Test and hCG at different times but still having the issues. Lowering the dosage dropped my sensitive E2 to 41 and my Total Test to 943. I'm starting to think its not an estrogen issue but the way that hCG must interact with the nervous system. My anxiety response is still from 6-18 hours after administration. I will be lowering my hCG dose again to see if that helps. If anyone has any ideas that worked for them, please post. thanks

So I have been on TRT for 6 years and over the last 1 1/2 yrs have been a patient of Dr Saya’s at Defy. I literally just added HCG last Sunday. Started at 400 IU sq on Sunday and Thursday I had the same reaction. Thankfully I dealt with panic attacks 8 years ago so am well versed in those. I also have this type of anxiety if I get a velodrome shot for allergies. I took 200 IU yesterday around noon and at 4 am I had another anxiety attack but am able to breathe and laugh it off because I know how to rest it. Even though I will say they SUCK. This is definitely a cortisone or adrenal squeeze nothing to do with estradiol. My SHBG is low normal so I only need about 55 mg twice a week of T Now today I actually feel really good and borderline like I’ve been on prednisone just wired so my plan is to start titrations down to 150 IU and then 100IU every 3.5 days to see if I have a sweet spot and if I can tolerate HCG. I can tell you with ALL of the things you read more is not always better

 

[rayrock1]

Did Dr Saya mention hcg was still effective at 300iu or 200 iu's a week.? It will be interesting if you reach a breaking dose for anxiety related onset. Please post your results. I read on another site that some guys just abandon the idea after even the lowest level still was problematic.

 

[NL77]

Did Dr Saya mention hcg was still effective at 300iu or 200 iu's a week.? It will be interesting if you reach a breaking dose for anxiety related onset. Please post your results. I read on another site that some guys just abandon the idea after even the lowest level still was problematic.

I haven’t asked Dr.Saya. I am going to email the nurse. Regardless, if you happen to be someone who is more sensitive and your testicles are relaxes at 200 IU then who cares about theories. Bloodwork and numbers are a guide but what matters is how YOU feel. I’ve been on higher doses of T, I’ve taken it once every two weeks all the way down to eod. I’ve tried sub q etc. we sometimes are looking for more than we should be expecting. I feel really good on my dose of T, no AI, I take 10 mg of DHEA because mine was really low. I can’t take 30 mg of DHEA because it makes me feel bad but 10 I feel great on. Only reason I added HCG was to relax testicles and try and get more sensitivity. It definitely did that in a week. I found when I was dialing in, back in the day, was to keep a log of how you feel and only change one thing at a time. It takes a little while but you will get it dialed in. I’ll let ya know what they say

 

[NL77]

Did Dr Saya mention hcg was still effective at 300iu or 200 iu's a week.? It will be interesting if you reach a breaking dose for anxiety related onset. Please post your results. I read on another site that some guys just abandon the idea after even the lowest level still was problematic.

Does your anxiety subside as you get further away from your injection?

 

[rayrock1]

yes after 24 hours I am fine.

 

[Willyt]

I haven’t asked Dr.Saya. I am going to email the nurse. Regardless, if you happen to be someone who is more sensitive and your testicles are relaxes at 200 IU then who cares about theories. Bloodwork and numbers are a guide but what matters is how YOU feel. I’ve been on higher doses of T, I’ve taken it once every two weeks all the way down to eod. I’ve tried sub q etc. we sometimes are looking for more than we should be expecting. I feel really good on my dose of T, no AI, I take 10 mg of DHEA because mine was really low. I can’t take 30 mg of DHEA because it makes me feel bad but 10 I feel great on. Only reason I added HCG was to relax testicles and try and get more sensitivity. It definitely did that in a week. I found when I was dialing in, back in the day, was to keep a log of how you feel and only change one thing at a time. It takes a little while but you will get it dialed in. I’ll let ya know what they say

It will be interesting to see that Defy says about minimum dosage. Thread on this forum from the other day mentioned 250-300 per dose as being the floor for effectivness.

I am in same boat. I have tried HCG at different doses and even small dose of 150 gives me surge of anxiety and generally made me feel crappy - depressed and emotional like PMS. I am going to wait until my T levels stabilize from latest protocol and give it another shot.

 

[NL77]

It will be interesting to see that Defy says about minimum dosage. Thread on this forum from the other day mentioned 250-300 per dose as being the floor for effectivness.

I am in same boat. I have tried HCG at different doses and even small dose of 150 gives me surge of anxiety and generally made me feel crappy - depressed and emotional like PMS. I am going to wait until my T levels stabilize from latest protocol and give it another shot.

They had me try 120 IU twice a week. It wasn’t as severe but still have tension through my whole body like anxiety trying to come on. Hate that feeling. Needless to say, Hcg isn’t for me lol. I’m just going to stick with the T. I took the dose 4 days ago and I still have the tension in my arms and legs and the weird aura feeling.

 

[rayrock1]

followed up with the Dr. He said that anxiety from HCG was do to estrogen. He suggested I take .5 mg to 1mg of arimidex per week. To get estrogen below 30. He said HCG concentration is not a issue, minimum effect HCG dose 250iu a week, did not use pregnenolone, or though it had anything to do with cortisol.

 

[NL77]

followed up with the Dr. He said that anxiety from HCG was do to estrogen. He suggested I take .5 mg to 1mg of arimidex per week. To get estrogen below 30. He said HCG concentration is not a issue, minimum effect HCG dose 250iu a week, did not use pregnenolone, or though it had anything to do with cortisol.

I would not take any arimidex unless he pulled an estradiol. My estradiol has been all over the place at different times over the last 7 yrs and most of the time it has been a non issue except for when it was to low. I’m telling you right now, beware of doctors who tell you what it is without doing any testing. Hcg is not going to cause an estrogen spike in 12 hours. He’s full of crap. Otherwise explain how people are taking 5,000 IU per week and have no estrogen problems.

 

[gerardo]

followed up with the Dr. He said that anxiety from HCG was do to estrogen. He suggested I take .5 mg to 1mg of arimidex per week. To get estrogen below 30. He said HCG concentration is not a issue, minimum effect HCG dose 250iu a week, did not use pregnenolone, or though it had anything to do with cortisol.

Could you explain a little about cortisol? After all, does HCG really cause anxiety due to increased E2? I already take Arimidex + Hcg + Tes cyp and the anxiety symptoms continued?

 

[rayrock1]

I found this on an old post from another site. It discusses the cortisol link.
This study was pointed out in a previous article written by Patrick Arnold.

"There is an enzyme that is localized primarily in the kidneys whose function is to protect the kidneys from circulating cortisol. The kidneys have receptors called mineral corticoid receptors (MR’s) which are meant to bind to specific adrenal hormones (called mineralcorticoids) in the body such as aldosterone. The result of this binding is a signal to increase sodium and water retention in the body, while stimulating the excretion of potassium. This is an important mechanism to maintain fluid and electrolyte balance in the body.

A problem exists though in that cortisol can also bind activate these receptors. Cortisol is a widely circulating hormone and serves a multitude of functions throughout the body. However its intended biological functions do not include mineralcorticoid action in the kidneys, so to prevent this from happening the kidneys are rich in the enzyme 11b-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 2 (11b-HSD2). This enzyme deactivates cortisol by converting it into cortisone before it can bind to the renal MRs."

[IMG alt="11 beta HSD 2.jpg"]https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/tnation/uploads/default/original/3X/a/7/a7fc3e8cb17f74c6a5b0e6090cc6febb24164b1b.jpeg[/IMG] 3

Testosterone and anabolic steroids have been shown to inhibit 11b-HSD2.

Here’s how it works: throughout the course of the day, the adrenal gland releases the hormone cortisol, either due to normal circadian (daily) and ultradian (hourly) rhythms or in reaction to stress. Cortisol is an important stress hormone, but many of its effects, while good in a fight-or-flight scenario, are bad over time in terms of diabetes and obesity: cortisol increases glucose production and release in the liver; increases appetite in anticipation of any necessary reaction to the stress-causing situation; and alters metabolic processing such that fat is preferentially stored in the central abdominal region. So, for diabetics, this means stored glucose directly increases blood sugar, new calories are ingested and increase both blood sugar and weight, and, to top it all off, the new weight tends to be the “bad,” visceral, disease-causing weight.

There are a couple of therapeutically important pit-stops for cortisol throughout this process, though; the active hormone cortisol can be converted in the kidney, colon, and some other tissues into the inactive molecule cortisone. The enzyme 11 beta-HSD2 aids this conversion, and allows cortisol to be stored out of the bloodstream.

Inhibiting 11b-HSD 2 can cause glucocorticoid-mediated MR activation, potassium excretion, sodium and water retention, and increased blood pressure. "

 

[rayrock1]

my Dr thought it was from my e2 at 41. Gerardo what is your e2 level?

 

[gerardo]

my Dr thought it was from my e2 at 41. Gerardo what is your e2 level?

Measuring E2 in blood gave 26 and E2 in saliva gave 4.3. According to the laboratory, the maximum limit is 3.5.