DHT, DHT derivative steroids, and libido

#21
Probably less of interest to guys already taking large doses. The question is in the context of taking small doses concurrent with TRT to boost effective DHT, while keeping serum levels in what would be an equivalent physiological range. For some, testosterone cream to the scrotum is too much of an estradiol booster.
I thought t cream on the scrotum was supposed to help with estradiol control compared to other spots on the body. Are these guys exceptions?
 
#22
I thought t cream on the scrotum was supposed to help with estradiol control compared to other spots on the body. Are these guys exceptions?
Ya I’ve never heard this about scrotal application resulting in higher E2 conversion. The only thing I’ve heard about creams to the scrotum is that it increases DHT at a higher rate, and DHT opposes the symptoms of elevated E2.
 

fifty

Well-Known Member
#23
Vince, I am just about to start cream and thought once a day was the "norm" for cream was "best" for once a day as it gives a close peak and drop to our normal T cycle?

I was told to do one click two times a day.
Good thing about cream is the half life is so short you should be able to experiment a little.
 
#24
Do you mind posting the results of that DHT test after being on the 2 clicks per day? And I assume you are applying each click to the scrotum?
let's see...I have to use it each day as I testing verified return to baseline at 24hrs post. 3hrs post application I can pull ~100 on a 16-79 scale. My untreated DHT is ~40 on that scale. I think that that's 25mg application. That was with my normal Cyp dose which might have been 16mg/Day but I could be wrong with what Cyp regimen I was using when those labs were pulled.
 
#25
Ya I’ve never heard this about scrotal application resulting in higher E2 conversion. The only thing I’ve heard about creams to the scrotum is that it increases DHT at a higher rate, and DHT opposes the symptoms of elevated E2.
I think Ive heard it similar, or DHT opposes Estrogen, has a stronger affinity at the receptor something like that.
 
#26
I’ve heard of a decent number of people running 100/100 test/mast saying it’s great. It not a legal option here in the US though.

I think you have the right idea OP except for e2. Even on relatively high doses you don’t need to take an ai. I know you did well taking an ai on cycle, but that’s maybe 3 months, where only half had stable levels assuming dose was consistent.

I don’t think you have that protocol of 120 cyp and some cream enough time. Gotta wait out the negative side effects imo.

I would either switch to cream 2x/day or just increase my TRT dose a good bit. Give it 3 months short of unbearable side effects.
 

Cataceous

Well-Known Member
#27
I thought t cream on the scrotum was supposed to help with estradiol control compared to other spots on the body. Are these guys exceptions?
DHT does have anti-estrogen properties, both through mild aromatase inhibition and competitive inhibition of estradiol at receptors. However, scrotal testosterone cream does raise estradiol in some guys. If I'm remembering correctly, Dr. Saya has noted this. In addition, my highest recorded estradiol was when I added scrotal testosterone cream to my protocol; total testosterone was actually a little lower, so a T boost was not the reason. Other guys have reported similar effects.
 
#29
I also am starting t cream once my order comes in. Dr Nichols has the majority of his patients on twice per day dosing, including himself I believe. I think twice per day is the norm, but there’s at least one guy on here that said twice a day kept him up at night, and it all clicked when he went to once per day dosing. I plan on trying both.
Ideally to most closely approximate natural T diurnal cycles, we would use the cream once per day. But I have found that once a day is intolerable. The huge blast in the morning leaves me feeling very overmedicated. Then at night my joints would sometimes ache. Twice a day alleviates both of those side FX. It'll be interesting to see if you can tolerate once a day.
 
#30
Ideally to most closely approximate natural T diurnal cycles, we would use the cream once per day. But I have found that once a day is intolerable. The huge blast in the morning leaves me feeling very overmedicated. Then at night my joints would sometimes ache. Twice a day alleviates both of those side FX. It'll be interesting to see if you can tolerate once a day.
So I just joined the FB ground that the new TOT roundtable guys created, and just read through a bunch of threads pertaining to guys on creams. Turns out pretty much everyone is applying it twice per day. I’m sure they’re doing this for good reason. Dr Nichols stated on there that everyone is different, and some men may do well on once per day application, but almost everybody does best on twice per day. So not sure how much time I’m going to spend experimenting with the once per day application. Don’t get me wrong, I love experimenting more than anybody here, but I also want to feel optimized like yesterday. So we’ll see what happens. Empower should be overnighting the cream and my Ipamorelin in the next day or two.
 
#31
Ideally to most closely approximate natural T diurnal cycles, we would use the cream once per day. But I have found that once a day is intolerable. The huge blast in the morning leaves me feeling very overmedicated. Then at night my joints would sometimes ache. Twice a day alleviates both of those side FX. It'll be interesting to see if you can tolerate once a day.

If only on T cream that may make sense. I will be trying a little T cream to supplement my T Cyp injection. Do you have MPB? If so, did it increase rate of loss?
 
#32
If only on T cream that may make sense. I will be trying a little T cream to supplement my T Cyp injection. Do you have MPB? If so, did it increase rate of loss?
I am on both cream and injections. I still can't tolerate using cream once a day. As for MPB, I do have a receding hairline but the top of my head is still covered in hair. Adding cypionate nor the cream made any difference in my hair.
 

Nelson Vergel

Founder, ExcelMale.com
#33
Increasing DHT too much has the opposite effect on libido as DHT blocks the estrogen receptor needed for libido to be present. That is why oxandrolone and stanozolol, two DHT derivatives, tend to lower libido even in the presence of TRT background.
 
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