Cholesterol Lowering: Crestor vs Niacin

TestOneTwo

Active Member
I’m also interested in maximizing my muscle gains of course but there are actually plenty of people successfully adding mass on a pure carnivore diet. Let’s see how it goes.

You need carbs in the diet if you want to add muscle mass!

Carnivore or low carb (<50 grams/day) even in a calorie surplus are not going to help you put on a lot of muscle mass and if you are naturally a skinny hard gainer good luck with that.

As you know true carnivore is following a diet where you are consuming all of your daily caloric intake from proteins and fats.

Depending on your goals and whether you are trying to lose body fat or gain lean muscle tissue comes down to your overall daily caloric intake and what percentage of your macros come from protein and fat.

In most cases, I would say whether one is trying to lose body fat or gain lean muscle tissue than 1-1.5 grams of protein/lb of bodyweight would be more than enough.

Consuming any more protein than this is pointless.

You are training your body to burn fat efficiently as its main fuel source.

The rest of your calories should be coming from fats such as fatty cuts of beef, pork, chicken (thighs), fatty fish (salmon, sardines, mackerel, trout), whole eggs, whipping cream, ghee, lard, tallow, extra virgin olive oil.

You could even eat lean cuts of protein but the downfall is you would need to consume a fair amount of fats from ghee, lard, tallow, egg yolks, extra virgin olive oil along with your lean proteins.

It is much easier and tastier to just stick to the fatty cuts of beef, pork, chicken, fatty fish, and than add in some fats to meet your daily caloric requirement (depending on your goals).

To give you an example if you weigh 200 lbs and you are aiming for 1 gram protein/lb bodyweight.

200 grams of protein/day would be needed.

This would give you 800 cal/day from protein (4cal/gram).

The rest of your calories would come from fat and how much you consume per day would come down to whether you are trying to lose body fat or gain lean muscle tissue and what your daily caloric need would be to achieve such.

Even than carnivore and low carb diets are much more effective for trying to lose body fat and maintain lean muscle.

Carbs are king when it comes to packing on muscle tissue.

When in a caloric surplus and the goal is to gain muscle mass if we take both diets (moderate-high carb/moderate protein/low fat) vs (carnivore or low carb/moderate-high protein/high fat).

The moderate-high carb-based diet will be more effective.

The human body can store upwards of 500 grams of carbs (400 in the muscle/100 in the liver) in the form of glycogen and for every gram stored it will pull in roughly 3 grams of water intracellularly in the muscle cell which will not only increase the size of the cell but the muscle will be harder, have more energy stored for a long intense workout, result in better pumps and recovery from training let alone increase overall strength.

Top it off that carbs release insulin which is very anabolic when manipulated at the right time which can drive amino acids and nutrients into the muscle cell.

One's muscles will always bigger/harder/fuller when consuming enough carbohydrates in the diet.

Strict carnivore or low carb (<50 grams/day) will result in depletion of muscle glycogen which can make the muscles take on a deflated/flat appearance.

What type of diet you follow comes down to genetics and one's insulin sensitivity.

When trying to gain muscle mass or improve body composition the skinny hard gainer type tends to do well when following a higher carb-based diet as opposed to the heavier set easy gainer type which tends to do well following a low-carb/carnivore based diet.
All very valid points, most of which I learned from my own body. At this point I wouldn’t go as far as claiming that carnivore is going to be the holy grail for the rest of my life. I’ll be able to pass judgement after 3 months.

As you said, for slimming down it’s probably great. For muscle maintenance or even increase I think a genetic component plays into it so it may or may not be useful for that. While I‘d never mind adding extra muscle mass, the truth is that an excess of calories heavy on carbs does indeed just that for me but my lipids start playing up and my insulin sensitivity goes south.

It’s not pre diabetic yet but looking at bulking period values I could see it happen in 5 years down the line if I stick with high carb. When I was at my heaviest muscleswise I was also at the worst in terms of my blood values. That was a downer!

That’s why I wanted to try it out for 3 months first. Labs as well as lifting results will give me insight into the effectiveness of carnivore diet - for me. The reports of well-being on such diet is compelling. But let’s see, hasn’t happened yet and by the looks of it it’s going to be an increase in meat consumption first without completely ditching everything else.
 

Gman86

Member
I’m also interested in maximizing my muscle gains of course but there are actually plenty of people successfully adding mass on a pure carnivore diet. Let’s see how it goes.

You need carbs in the diet if you want to add muscle mass!

Carnivore or low carb (<50 grams/day) even in a calorie surplus are not going to help you put on a lot of muscle mass and if you are naturally a skinny hard gainer good luck with that.

As you know true carnivore is following a diet where you are consuming all of your daily caloric intake from proteins and fats.

Depending on your goals and whether you are trying to lose body fat or gain lean muscle tissue comes down to your overall daily caloric intake and what percentage of your macros come from protein and fat.

In most cases, I would say whether one is trying to lose body fat or gain lean muscle tissue than 1-1.5 grams of protein/lb of bodyweight would be more than enough.

Consuming any more protein than this is pointless.

You are training your body to burn fat efficiently as its main fuel source.

The rest of your calories should be coming from fats such as fatty cuts of beef, pork, chicken (thighs), fatty fish (salmon, sardines, mackerel, trout), whole eggs, whipping cream, ghee, lard, tallow, extra virgin olive oil.

You could even eat lean cuts of protein but the downfall is you would need to consume a fair amount of fats from ghee, lard, tallow, egg yolks, extra virgin olive oil along with your lean proteins.

It is much easier and tastier to just stick to the fatty cuts of beef, pork, chicken, fatty fish, and than add in some fats to meet your daily caloric requirement (depending on your goals).

To give you an example if you weigh 200 lbs and you are aiming for 1 gram protein/lb bodyweight.

200 grams of protein/day would be needed.

This would give you 800 cal/day from protein (4cal/gram).

The rest of your calories would come from fat and how much you consume per day would come down to whether you are trying to lose body fat or gain lean muscle tissue and what your daily caloric need would be to achieve such.

Even than carnivore and low carb diets are much more effective for trying to lose body fat and maintain lean muscle.

Carbs are king when it comes to packing on muscle tissue.

When in a caloric surplus and the goal is to gain muscle mass if we take both diets (moderate-high carb/moderate protein/low fat) vs (carnivore or low carb/moderate-high protein/high fat).

The moderate-high carb-based diet will be more effective.

The human body can store upwards of 500 grams of carbs (400 in the muscle/100 in the liver) in the form of glycogen and for every gram stored it will pull in roughly 3 grams of water intracellularly in the muscle cell which will not only increase the size of the cell but the muscle will be harder, have more energy stored for a long intense workout, result in better pumps and recovery from training let alone increase overall strength.

Top it off that carbs release insulin which is very anabolic when manipulated at the right time which can drive amino acids and nutrients into the muscle cell.

One's muscles will always bigger/harder/fuller when consuming enough carbohydrates in the diet.

Strict carnivore or low carb (<50 grams/day) will result in depletion of muscle glycogen which can make the muscles take on a deflated/flat appearance.

What type of diet you follow comes down to genetics and one's insulin sensitivity.

When trying to gain muscle mass or improve body composition the skinny hard gainer type tends to do well when following a higher carb-based diet as opposed to the heavier set easy gainer type which tends to do well following a low-carb/carnivore based diet.
Very well said! What u explained is basically exactly why I’m hesitant to go full carnivore at the moment. I just think to put on more lean muscle tissue, it will be a lot easier, and cheaper financially, to do it with a moderate amount of carbs. But in the end, health and longevity trump having more muscle mass than my genetics probably intended. So I see myself eventually going full carnivore.

The only thing that u may have gotten wrong is the muscle glycogen thing. I’m not 100% sure u did, so don’t hold me to it, but there’s this guy dr Paul saladino. Other than Shawn baker, he’s one of the leading doctors in the carnivore movement. Imo, he’s the best source of information on carnivore. Guys a robot. Have no clue how he retains all the knowledge that he does, and can express it so intelligently. But anyways, he’s said that in studies that he’s read, they have shown that muscle glycogen stores were no different when comparing athletes using carbs, and carnivore/ fat adapted athletes. Again, I personally haven’t read the studies, but have heard Dr Paul saladino quote this study on multiple occasions. Not sure if it’s been replicated, or even true. Just something to consider. But I’m with u. To maintain the amount of muscle mass that ur body prefers, and get down to the body fat percentage that makes u look lean, while maintaining optimal health, carnivore is king. It’s the only diet I’ve seen people consistently maintain muscle and lose body fat without having to track any type of macros. It’s like losing weight for dummies. Diet couldn’t be any simpler to stick to, cravings completely go away, ur relationship with food becomes much healthier and how it should be, and u don’t have to track any calories (in most people) to get the body u desire. My cravings have completely gone away, and my relationship with food is at a place I never thought it would be, and I’m still doing 150g of healthy sources of carbs per day. I would think I would have even less cravings on full carnivore.
 

Gman86

Member
Any diet that excludes entire food groups is highly questionable to me.

Remember some of the most incredible athletes in the world live on McDonald’s and candy.
It does seem crazy. I think if carnivore, and saying that veggies do more harm than good, doesn’t make u think this diet is completely batsh*t crazy at first, then u are way too gullible of a person. Initially, this diet should make u think anyone on it is crazy, has no clue what they’re talking about, and is going to die of some form of heart disease at a much much earlier age than most people.

The crazy part is when u start to deep dive into the research, u find out that it’s actually the most optimal diet a human can most likely do, and how our ancestors probably ate for hundreds of thousands of years. They thrived off of mostly meat and fats from animals, and seasonal fruits. Plants are living organisms, and have many defense mechanisms that disrupt the health of whatever animal eats them, but the main one is oxalates. Once u start learning about oxalates, that’s when things start to really make sense. All u have to do is listen to one video/ podcast with sally norton on oxalates. Shawn baker and dr paul saladino and other carnivore advocates all know and talk about oxalates frequently, but sally norton is one of the leading experts on them. At least an expert that is very vocal and present on social media. And u eventually learn that veggies are not necessary at all. Everything u can get from veggies, u can get from animal products. And u learn that veggies have vitamins and minerals in forms that are not ideal for the human body, but animal sources just happen to have all the vitamins and minerals we need, and in all the correct forms that our body prefers. It’s just so interesting how it all makes sense once u start really learning about this way of eating.

But like I mentioned before, ur brain right now should be thinking I’m an insane person, that watched a few videos/ podcasts and now thinks I know what I’m talking about in regards to this new “fad diet” hut is most likely making a big mistake and putting my health at risk big time thinking this way of eating is optimal for most humans. Don’t ever take what anyone says as gospel. Always do ur own research, and then come to ur own conclusions on what u feel is an optimal way of eating for u.
 

UCFguy01

Member
If you don't have coronary disease and don't have any calcium deposits in your arteries. There's no need for a statin.

He's right, my cholesterol is just as high as yours. I'm 41 years old and I've had high cholesterol since my 20's. I just got my calcium score back and it was a zero. No calcium build up whatsoever. The cholesterol myth is nothing to worry about. Get your CAC score and you'll know the chances of having a heart issue over the next 10 years.

Diabetes probably has more to do with heart disease than cholesterol.
 

fifty

Well-Known Member
The crazy part is when u start to deep dive into the research, u find out that it’s actually the most optimal diet a human can most likely do, and how our ancestors probably ate for hundreds of thousands of years.
Maybe that's why so many in the old testament lived for hundreds of years :)
 
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Gman86

Member
He's right, my cholesterol is just as high as yours. I'm 41 years old and I've had high cholesterol since my 20's. I just got my calcium score back and it was a zero. No calcium build up whatsoever. The cholesterol myth is nothing to worry about. Get your CAC score and you'll know the chances of having a heart issue over the next 10 years.

Diabetes probably has more to do with heart disease than cholesterol.
Absolutely. Was just listening to a podcast where they were explaining having elevated blood sugar levels for too long can cause blood vessels to harden. So basically insulin resistance/ diabetes. It’s ok to eat a decent amount of carbs, as long as ur insulin sensitivity is good, and the blood sugar levels rise and fall in a healthy amount of time. It’s blood sugar levels that stay elevated longer than they should that causes problems.
 

DixieWrecked

Active Member
I'm not going carnivore for sure. Evidence can be cherry picked to support anything. But lets be serious, the reason we evolved into what humans are is because of our diverse diet.

Anyway, I am definitely going to get this calcium scan done. Thanks for everyone's discussion.
 

Gman86

Member
Maybe that's why so many in the old testament lived for hundreds of years :)
Hahah maybe. I was bored at work one time, and tried reading the Bible. First few pages were talking about all these people that were like 500-700 years old. I think Noah built the arc when he was in his 600’s lol. I always wondered what that was about. Whether their years were different lengths of time than ours, if these numbers were just grossly exaggerated, or maybe in fact Noah was just on the carnivore diet and still going ham at 600 years old lol
 

Gman86

Member
I'm not going carnivore for sure. Evidence can be cherry picked to support anything. But lets be serious, the reason we evolved into what humans are is because of our diverse diet.

Anyway, I am definitely going to get this calcium scan done. Thanks for everyone's discussion.
Absolutely. Humans would of ate whatever they could over dying of starvation
 

UCFguy01

Member
Absolutely. Was just listening to a podcast where they were explaining having elevated blood sugar levels for too long can cause blood vessels to harden. So basically insulin resistance/ diabetes. It’s ok to eat a decent amount of carbs, as long as ur insulin sensitivity is good, and the blood sugar levels rise and fall in a healthy amount of time. It’s blood sugar levels that stay elevated longer than they should that causes problems.
The more I research, the more I find what you're referring to. There is something about keeping blood sugar levels low that make people live a lot longer. I think I read that over 50% of Americans are insulin resistant. It's crazy!!! The boxed preservative type foods we eat seem to be slowly killing us all. I'm not saying low carb is the right thing, but if you do eat a lot of carbs, taking metformin or berberine might be something that could lead to a longer life. I think eating vegetables, fruit, and meat (real food) and staying away from the food in the aisles of a grocery store would be a good idea for longevity.
 

Gman86

Member
The more I research, the more I find what you're referring to. There is something about keeping blood sugar levels low that make people live a lot longer. I think I read that over 50% of Americans are insulin resistant. It's crazy!!! The boxed preservative type foods we eat seem to be slowly killing us all. I'm not saying low carb is the right thing, but if you do eat a lot of carbs, taking metformin or berberine might be something that could lead to a longer life. I think eating vegetables, fruit, and meat (real food) and staying away from the food in the aisles of a grocery store would be a good idea for longevity.
And actually the more I research, the more I’m realize that insulin resistance may be the cause of most chronic diseases, or is at least a main contributing factor in most disease. It just seems like one of the best things u can do for ur overall health is try to stay as insulin sensitive as possible, and keep insulin levels as low as possible. It makes sense though, our ancestors would of never ever ate a diet that included even a moderate amount of carbohydrates, let alone a high amount. They just would of never had access to this many carbs. For hundreds of thousands of years, our ancestors most likely ate mostly animal products. Which would mean high protein, high fat. And then ate carbs in the form of seasonal fruits. They most likely cycled in and out of ketosis for most of evolution. Veggies would of only been eaten as a last resort. They’re bitter, and they’re extremely low in calories. It wouldn’t make sense for them to eat veggies often to survive. Ur almost at a net loss in calories once u factor in the energy it would take to gather the veggies, and then process them once u ingest them. Plus, just do some research on oxalates when u have the chance. U’ll realize that humans are just not supposed to be eating plants. Plants have a place in regards to medicine, but are not optimal for a food sources. Oxalates do so many damaging things to the human body. Also, a good amount of vitamins and minerals in plants are just not in the correct forms that our bodies prefer. And also, there’s other plant defense mechanisms that act as stressors to the human body. It’s called hormesis. Intermittent hormesis can be beneficial, but by eating veggies on a daily basis, is just too stressful to the human body. Plus, like I said, the most damaging aspect of plants is the high oxalate content. We can get the same types of hormesis from plants, in other, less damaging ways. There’s literally no beneficial reason to eat plants. All vitamins and minerals that we get from plants, we can get from animal products, and in all the correct forms of these vitamins and minerals that our bodies prefer. And without any antinutrients taking away from the absorption of some of the vitamins and minerals.

And as far as high carb goes, modern agriculture is so new to the human diet. Our bodies have not even come close to evolving and adapting to this new high level of available carbs, that we would of never come close to seeing throughout our evolution. Here’s a list of grains that have come from modern agriculture, and have most likely be the main contributing factor into insulin resistance being so prevalent. Corn is on this list, which obv means we can thank modern agriculture for high fructose corn syrup.

And in regards to fiber, fiber isn’t needed in the human diet. It’s a myth that increasing fiber helps with having regular bowel movements. It’s actually the opposite. Removing fiber is what will improve bowel regularity the most. Humans do not need fiber at all in their diet. Here’s a video of a guy explaining why. There’s an interesting study he goes over at the 3:30 min mark showing that the high fiber group had bowel movements, on average, every 6.8 days. And the no fiber group had a bowel movement, on average, once per day.
 
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DixieWrecked

Active Member
Thank you Nelson for the video. As much as I am an anti-establishment kind of guy and believe that pharmaceutical companies are evil, I think at the very least I am going to give the Crestor a try along with a total diet overhaul which has already started 4 days ago. This has got me thinking because I have noticed that a few men on forums complain of worse ED once starting TRT. I wonder if this is caused by TRT's negative impact on cholesterol.
 

madman

Member
No offense to mooseman, but anyone that purposely brings total cholesterol under 100, LDL to 40, and probably brings HDL to 20 or less I would imagine, is a certified insane person. This is one of the worst things u can possibly do to ur health that I can think of. That’s just asking for dementia/ Alzheimer’s at an early age. Cholesterol is one of the most important things for overall health. Purposely dropping cholesterol this low is an early death sentence, imo. But that’s all this is, my opinion. Everyone has to figure out what’s best for them, based off of their current knowledge and understanding on this subject. But u couldn’t pay me any amount of money to bring my total cholesterol under 100. There’s no amount of money that can give u the years back that ur going to take off of ur life doing this, and there’s no amount of money that’s going to cure the brain disease that eventually ensues. Here’s my latest lipid panel as of just a week ago. It’s one of the best panels I’ve had since being on HRT. For the last 2 months I’ve switched to mostly carnivore. Red meat 3 times per day, 9oz of red meat each meal, very small amount of ghee, 4-5 egg yolks per day, 1-2 servings of organic raw honey per day, 200-300 grams of white rice per day, and a few servings of fruit per day. Usually watermelon and apples. Only other things I eat are salmon sometimes, some lamb, beef organs, and salt. So diet is the best it’s ever been in my life. And been doing much more cardio outside now that the weather has gotten better in Mass. Obv opinions are going to vary on what an ideal lipid panel looks like, again based on their current knowledge on the subject, and where they’re getting their information, but this is pretty close to what an ideal lipid panel looks like, imo. I would just like my HDL a little higher.

This is not mostly carnivore just because you eat 9 oz red meat 3x daily, ghee, egg yolks, salmon, lamb, beef organs, and it would not even be considered keto.

Starchy rice, a couple of pieces of fruit, and raw honey is still a fair amount of carbs.

A small apple has around 20 grams of carbs!

You have been preaching carnivore for some time now.....get back to me when you man up and go full-blown carnivore.

Let me know how great you feel overall and how much muscle mass you are going to pack on following such a diet with your genetics/small frame.

Odd that you are so gung ho praising the benefits when you have never even tried it.
 

Vince

Super Moderator
 

Gman86

Member
This is not mostly carnivore just because you eat 9 oz red meat 3x daily, ghee, egg yolks, salmon, lamb, beef organs, and it would not even be considered keto.

Starchy rice, a couple of pieces of fruit, and raw honey is still a fair amount of carbs.

A small apple has around 20 grams of carbs!

You have been preaching carnivore for some time now.....get back to me when you man up and go full-blown carnivore.

Let me know how great you feel overall and how much muscle mass you are going to pack on following such a diet with your genetics/small frame.

Odd that you are so gung ho praising the benefits when you have never even tried it.
Little harsh, but overall spot on lol. I would say my diet is carnivore based. Definitely not carnivore obv. I just believe in all the principles of carnivore, and feel that it’s as evolutionarily accurate as we can get.

I only do carbs for the muscle building properties. It’s obv easier and cheaper to put on muscle when carbohydrates are involved.

Do u currently do carnivore? I’d love to hear from someone on carnivore that’s trying to put on lean muscle tissue and what their experience has been.

I plan on eventually doing full carnivore at some point. Although, I’m a little hesitant due to people’s thyroid levels dropping a bit on carnivore. But the consensus seems to be that thyroid receptor sensitivity increases, and therefore lower levels of free T3 are enough to get the same desired effects. I also don’t like the elevated fasting glucose levels people seem to experience on carnivore. But there’s been people that use continuous glucose monitors and their blood sugar levels are consistently in very healthy ranges, and even if they spike a bit after a meal, their levels very quickly go back to normal. Overall I still plan on doing full carnivore one day. I think it would be very easy to do so.
 

davidrn

Member
I have two comments, the first is personal, my total cholesterol was aprox 220, I started Low Flush Niacin, my total dropped to 185. I made no other changes for a few months when I was trying the Niacin.
The suggestion to get your thyroid optimized is sensible. Prior to 1960, total cholesterol testing was done to confirm hypothyroidism. I read that tidbit years ago.
 

Gman86

Member
I have two comments, the first is personal, my total cholesterol was aprox 220, I started Low Flush Niacin, my total dropped to 185. I made no other changes for a few months when I was trying the Niacin.
The suggestion to get your thyroid optimized is sensible. Prior to 1960, total cholesterol testing was done to confirm hypothyroidism. I read that tidbit years ago.
That’s so interesting. It’s common knowledge that optimizing the thyroid is one of the best ways to optimize lipids, so makes total sense
 

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