Wondering where to go from here?

[ffr3247r]

Long story but I’ll try to be brief I went on TRT for reasons similar to everyone else. I was mainly looking for increased libido because it was becoming an issue in my marriage

I am a 50 year old man. I am 5’5” and currently 168. I work out at least 6 days a week. I am the old guy who is in better shape than most 25 year olds. I was starting to slow down and felt somewhat sluggish. I also had zero sex drive.

Dr put me on TRT and after a roller coaster ride of events with sides and me changing my protocol because my dr is some what up to date on TRT he isn’t what I’d say an expert.

I started at 100ml a week and was pushed up to 200 a week after a year.

Honestly I felt the best on the larger dose but I started experiencing headaches and though it was a result of the large dose so I split it up to every 3.5 days and that helped for a while then the started again.

I dropped the dose to 160 and still the headaches persisted.

I then found out was BP related. I’ve been told all my life my BP was borderline but i suppose TRT put me higher than I needed to be and caused headaches.

Dr put me on BP meds and no kore headaches but now the libido is gone and erections a soft and sometimes just go away. I and dragging in the gym as well.

Is the BP med all to blame?

I’d like to get back to where I was and honestly that was at the 200ml a week. I know that’s now considered a TRT dose around here.

Total T. 1268
Free t 221
Sens E2 44
SHBG 35

Should I ask for a different BP med? I was on a beta blocker that didn’t seem to mess with erections but I felt foggy all the time.

BP med is Irbesartan hctz

Thanks

 

[Golfboy307]

Sounds like you are on a combination of ARB and diuretic. All of them come with side effects. Diuretics are very commonly prescribed but have many issues. They drain your body of nutrients (magnesium, sodium etc) and can cause erection issues, along with peeing all of the time. ARB's have a better profile generally. There is some great info on this site for BP meds if you search. Bottom line: try some other ones and look to get your total T under 1000 with dose adjustments.

For reference, I am on Lisinopril an ACE inhibitor. Works great for me no sides. But I tried several, including diuretics before I settled here.

 

[ffr3247r]

Sounds like you may be on to something.

I do wake several times a night to Pee which I’ve never done before.

I was gonna call my dr today and see if he could change me to something else to try

 

[Systemlord]

I’d like to get back to where I was and honestly that was at the 200ml a week. I know that’s now considered a TRT dose around here.

Total T. 1268
Free t 221
Sens E2 44
SHBG 35

Should I ask for a different BP med? I was on a beta blocker that didn’t seem to mess with erections but I felt foggy all the time.

It sounds like your protocol is excessive. One thing men on cycles report is diminished sexual parameters.

I actually think you'd be better off injecting smaller doses more often and if in the US you might consider Jatenzo, a new oral formulation of TRT. The half-life is really short and levels are 980 ng/dL at peak and 12 hours later 300 ng/dL.

 

[ffr3247r]

To be honest I’m not opposed to lower dose. I didn’t decide on the 200 by myself.

I’ve already dialed back to 160 and I’m thinking to go back to 140 or even 120.

 

[Cataceous]

...
I’ve already dialed back to 160 and I’m thinking to go back to 140 or even 120.

It's a familiar problem, this reluctance to take physiological doses of testosterone. Instead one takes drugs to deal with the side effects of higher doses, which then cause other side effects, and so on. I'm not picking on you personally, and I've previously had a similar mindset. There's this ingrained thought that because it's testosterone, more must be better. But that applies only to limited parameters, such as strength and stamina. Is it worth it if you disrupt other hormones to the point of having side effects? The 120 mg per week of testosterone cypionate you would reluctantly consider is actually providing close to double the testosterone that the average healthy young man makes naturally. In fact, 40-100 mg per week of cypionate pretty much covers normal physiology when dosed with adequate frequency. The implication is that you never had a chance to experience normal levels with TRT.

Here are some comments on libido in particular:

On TRT and low lobido

Hi Guys, I’ve been on TRT for a while now and take the following meds regularly. Current meds I’m on: Test Cyp - 0.3ml x 2 times a week 200 mg/ml (so thats 60mg twice a week) Anastrozole - 0.5mg x 2 times a week I’ve noticed that I have been lacking in sexual desire most of the time. I can...

www.excelmale.com

And here is my collection of less-is-better anecdotes:

Anyone combine injections and cream? How do you feel?

I’m a long term TRT patient, 39 years old. I’ve been on cypionate and inject a total of 154mg weekly in EOD subQ shots of 44mg each. I have been doing some thinking about the potential benefit of keeping dosing the same but experimenting with using a low cypionate base around 80-100mg weekly...

www.excelmale.com

Anyone combine injections and cream? How do you feel?

I’m a long term TRT patient, 39 years old. I’ve been on cypionate and inject a total of 154mg weekly in EOD subQ shots of 44mg each. I have been doing some thinking about the potential benefit of keeping dosing the same but experimenting with using a low cypionate base around 80-100mg weekly...

www.excelmale.com

Anyone combine injections and cream? How do you feel?

Interesting anecdote. I’m curious what what your SHBG and current protocol are? @JoeMatts im curious for this as well

www.excelmale.com

Hello, 60yo starting TRT.

Hi All. I'm 60yo, lucky with relatively few health problems so far. Total T 350-400. After about a year of research/consideration, about to start TRT, plan is just Test C, 150mg per week separated into two subq injections/week into delts/VGs, draw/inject using 29G 1ml. Get labs in ~8 weeks...

www.excelmale.com

Have you ever DECREASED your dose?

Hey guys. I've only been on TRT for about 9 months. I'm on Test Cyp 100 mg Q3.5d with 350iU of HCG IM. I recently (this week) lowered my Anastrozole from 0.5 mg on injection days to 0.25mg to see how it will effect me (side effects, changes in libido, and also then lab values). ****I'm happy...

www.excelmale.com

Hello, 60yo starting TRT.

Hi All. I'm 60yo, lucky with relatively few health problems so far. Total T 350-400. After about a year of research/consideration, about to start TRT, plan is just Test C, 150mg per week separated into two subq injections/week into delts/VGs, draw/inject using 29G 1ml. Get labs in ~8 weeks...

www.excelmale.com

TRT patient feeling better after lowering my prescribed dose

Hey Guys, Hope all's well and Happy 4th! I'm looking for feedback. As a young male battling ED and low T, hopefully sharing my experience on what worked helps someone too. Almost 32 now and I use to have severe ED as long as I can remember, maybe late teens. No clue on cause. Maybe it's...

www.excelmale.com

Dose Change Side Effects

Hi guys, I just switched to a daily protocol of 24mg after spending a few weeks on 100mg E3D. This E3D protocol kicked the shit out of me, I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time. The anxiety and thoughts were nightmarish plus the lethagy is real. Is there anything that...

www.excelmale.com

First labs after starting TRT - WOW!

My hematocrit was 0.55 with a normal range of 0.40 to 0.54. It is only slightly too high. My doctor didn't seem concerned about it. I'll post my full labs in the future. Very much appreciate your feedback. I'm also a bit confused how a dose of 120mg/week can have such a dramatic effect. It...

www.excelmale.com

 

[ffr3247r]

It's a familiar problem, this reluctance to take physiological doses of testosterone. Instead one takes drugs to deal with the side effects of higher doses, which then cause other side effects, and so on. I'm not picking on you personally, and I've previously had a similar mindset. There's this ingrained thought that because it's testosterone, more must be better. But that applies only to limited parameters, such as strength and stamina. Is it worth it if you disrupt other hormones to the point of having side effects? The 120 mg per week of testosterone cypionate you would reluctantly consider is actually providing close to double the testosterone that the average healthy young man makes naturally. In fact, 40-100 mg per week of cypionate pretty much covers normal physiology when dosed with adequate frequency. The implication is that you never had a chance to experience normal levels with TRT.

Here are some comments on libido in particular:

On TRT and low lobido

Hi Guys, I’ve been on TRT for a while now and take the following meds regularly. Current meds I’m on: Test Cyp - 0.3ml x 2 times a week 200 mg/ml (so thats 60mg twice a week) Anastrozole - 0.5mg x 2 times a week I’ve noticed that I have been lacking in sexual desire most of the time. I can...

www.excelmale.com

And here is my collection of less-is-better anecdotes:

Anyone combine injections and cream? How do you feel?

I’m a long term TRT patient, 39 years old. I’ve been on cypionate and inject a total of 154mg weekly in EOD subQ shots of 44mg each. I have been doing some thinking about the potential benefit of keeping dosing the same but experimenting with using a low cypionate base around 80-100mg weekly...

www.excelmale.com

Anyone combine injections and cream? How do you feel?

I’m a long term TRT patient, 39 years old. I’ve been on cypionate and inject a total of 154mg weekly in EOD subQ shots of 44mg each. I have been doing some thinking about the potential benefit of keeping dosing the same but experimenting with using a low cypionate base around 80-100mg weekly...

www.excelmale.com

Anyone combine injections and cream? How do you feel?

Interesting anecdote. I’m curious what what your SHBG and current protocol are? @JoeMatts im curious for this as well

www.excelmale.com

Hello, 60yo starting TRT.

Hi All. I'm 60yo, lucky with relatively few health problems so far. Total T 350-400. After about a year of research/consideration, about to start TRT, plan is just Test C, 150mg per week separated into two subq injections/week into delts/VGs, draw/inject using 29G 1ml. Get labs in ~8 weeks...

www.excelmale.com

Have you ever DECREASED your dose?

Hey guys. I've only been on TRT for about 9 months. I'm on Test Cyp 100 mg Q3.5d with 350iU of HCG IM. I recently (this week) lowered my Anastrozole from 0.5 mg on injection days to 0.25mg to see how it will effect me (side effects, changes in libido, and also then lab values). ****I'm happy...

www.excelmale.com

Hello, 60yo starting TRT.

Hi All. I'm 60yo, lucky with relatively few health problems so far. Total T 350-400. After about a year of research/consideration, about to start TRT, plan is just Test C, 150mg per week separated into two subq injections/week into delts/VGs, draw/inject using 29G 1ml. Get labs in ~8 weeks...

www.excelmale.com

TRT patient feeling better after lowering my prescribed dose

Hey Guys, Hope all's well and Happy 4th! I'm looking for feedback. As a young male battling ED and low T, hopefully sharing my experience on what worked helps someone too. Almost 32 now and I use to have severe ED as long as I can remember, maybe late teens. No clue on cause. Maybe it's...

www.excelmale.com

Dose Change Side Effects

Hi guys, I just switched to a daily protocol of 24mg after spending a few weeks on 100mg E3D. This E3D protocol kicked the shit out of me, I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time. The anxiety and thoughts were nightmarish plus the lethagy is real. Is there anything that...

www.excelmale.com

First labs after starting TRT - WOW!

My hematocrit was 0.55 with a normal range of 0.40 to 0.54. It is only slightly too high. My doctor didn't seem concerned about it. I'll post my full labs in the future. Very much appreciate your feedback. I'm also a bit confused how a dose of 120mg/week can have such a dramatic effect. It...

www.excelmale.com

Thanks I value your input. I’ve been lurking around here long a while.

I did not jump to my own dosing. I was instructed by my DR.

I’ve learned through my own research that most physicians are not that up to speed on hormones.

I was started at 50 per week and was gradually moved from there. I’ve since tried to educate myself and do my own labs to see where I’m at.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I need to dial it back to overcome all the negative effects I’ve caused by my own doing

I def don’t wanna medicate to combat sides caused by TRT.

So when I dial back how much should I go at a time?

Thanks again.

 

[Systemlord]

I’ve learned through my own research that most physicians are not that up to speed on hormones.

It's definitely a blind spot for an ordinary doctor and even the so-called specialists working at prestigious hospitals with big titles.

 

[tareload]

I’ve learned through my own research that most physicians are not that up to speed on hormones.

No one is up to speed on hormones at the individual level which is what every individual needs. Hence, trial and error and hope your confidence doesn't outrun your knowlege headlights if you know what I mean.

Hence, vast majority of physicians follow the pillars of medical ethics which includes do no harm.

 

[Cataceous]

...
So when I dial back how much should I go at a time?
...

That depends on your patience and tolerance for side effects. If you just want to do it quickly then you could immediately drop to 80-100 mg per week, which is unlikely to actually make you hypogonadal, but it could make you feel hypogonadal until your body adapts. Alternatively, you could lower the dose by a few milligrams a week for some months, which ideally would not even be perceptible.

Injection frequency is a further consideration in deciding how low to go. If you're injecting twice weekly and have a typical absorption rate then peak testosterone can be 50% over trough testosterone. You're aiming to keep both in a reasonable range. If your SHBG isn't close to 30 nMol/L then you should be focusing more on free testosterone, either measured by an accurate method—e.g. equilibrium dialysis, or else calculated.

 

[ffr3247r]

Going to make a dose adjustment this evening.

Thanks for the guidance.

I’ll post back results down the road