This is my first post. I would appreciate some help on where to go from here.
Background:
5 years of anti depressants.
Off the antidepressants, still depressed and low energy, weak erections. Used Epistane 4 times in the 5 year period after the antidepressant, and saw good results at all levels, and hence thought my issue could be testosterone related.
First testosterone test (I think it was total testosterone), result was 10.15mcg/ml , reference range 8.7 to 54.7.
I was told it was normal. Even though to me it seemed low.
Got more and more tired in the years after, until stopped going to the gym, even moving around was difficult, always sleepy, difficulty in lifting knees up or squatting, and very depressed most days.
4 years after the first test, tested again.
Results (done at 10.30 am):
Total T – 2,96 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Dehydroepiandrosterone - 219 mcg/dL (80-560)
No gonodotropins tested. Was given Testim and told to apply 50mg once a week for 3 months.
As I started applying the 50 mg Testim, I felt much better. I then divided the dose in two, applied twice a week, 25mg, then, then titrated to about 37.5 mg daily (3/4s).
I was singing in the shower, life was in colour again, I felt energised, the excruciating pain in my spine/disc went away, physically I felt good, my muscles felt strong, I could sustain my back.Depression and anxiety were going away I could sustain erections a bit better while erect, but for some reason the morning erection was weaker.
Tested again at Testim 37.5mg daily.
Results (done at 10.30 had not applied Testim yet that day before the test):
Total T – 4,42 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Dehydroepiandrosterone - 331,80 mcg/dL (80-560)
Got swapped from Testim to Tostran for better titration.
When using 50 mg Tostran I started feeling bad again. The anxiety was back, and I started experiencing negative things that I experienced before using the testosterone. With high levels of anxiety. Physically I was feeling good, best ever, but at the mental level all the gains prior with Testim were gone and I was feeling bad: Had a pulsing in my head, feet and hands numb, general feeling of unwellness, irritability.
At the time I was on 40 mg daily of Tostran, for a month I used HCG I had bought.
The combination of 40mg Tostran + HCG gave me the best erections I ever had! For the first time in my life I was not worried about sustaining an erection or worried, about sexual intercourse. (could it be that since a teen I had testosterone issues as I had weak erections as a teen? I had a lot of body hair and acne though)
I noticed HCG had an effect of allowing more blood to the penis, along with the testosterone which helped to sustained a better erection, this combination was fantastic.
I was still feeling bad however. I reduced Tostran to 30mg. Still I wasn’t feeling good: Anxiety, blood pressure higher than my normal (at around 135/78), temples pulsating, and pressure on my head, easily irritated, general feeling of unwellnesss in my head.
I then read in the forums people reporting a difference between Tostran and Testim. I went to read more on it and found out that Tostran is delivered in two phases and Testim in three. I then tried what I had left of Testim again for a few days, and I did feel a bit better, but still bad, not good as when I started TRT.
Tested on Tostran 30mg/daily.
Results (done at 11am after applying 30mg Tostran at 8 am):
Total T – 6,51 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Delta -4- Androstenedione - 3,34 ng/mL (Men: 0,6 -3,1)
FSH – 1,18 mU/mL (Men: 0,00 -20,00 / primary hypogonadism 13,00 – 73, 00)
LH – 1,42 mIU/mL (Men: 0.00 – 25.00)
Estradiol – 43,86 pg/mL (Men: 0-90)
T3 – 1,37 ug/ml (0.50 – 2.00)
T4 – 15,35 ug/dL (4,0 -13,0)
T.S.H. 2,92 UI/L (0,50 - 6,00)
T4 and red blood cells a bit high.
Stopped TRT, to be tested 5 weeks after, to know base levels with gonodotropins.
Results :
Total T – 2,90 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Free T – 12, 0 pg/mL (Men 20 to 39 years old 8.8 – 27.00)
SHBG – 38 nmol/L (18,00 – 144, 00)
Delta -4- Androstenedione - 2,88 ng/mL (Men: 0,6 -3,1)
Dehydroepiandrosterone - 192,50 mcg/dL (80-560)
FSH – 2,36 mU/mL (Men: 0,00 -20,00 / primary hypogonadism 13,00 – 73, 00)
LH – 2,96 mIU/mL (Men: 0.00 – 25.00)
17 Beta Estriol – 30,3 pmol/mL (Men: 7.6-42.6)
Cortisol Serum – 20,85 ug/dL (0.04 – 63.44)
So now, Total T and dehydroepiandrosterone are even lower than when I started TRT (then: Total T – 2,96 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9), Dehydroepiandrosterone - 219 mcg/dL (80-560)
But I don’t feel half as bad as I felt back then. Mood is much more stable, even though at days I do feel light swings, and some small sudden bursts of sadness; but they are bearable. I’m not feeling anxiety.
Energy levels are low, and it is difficult again to sustain my back, aching, and the pain in the spine is back, not as excruciating as before, but some days it is very bad.
I can move around however, I’m not as tired nor as sleepy as prior to TRT; even though now I not on TRT for 7 weeks. I can lift my knees and squat, even have been using some light dumbbells. Blood pressure is down to 110/65, 117/70.
Erections are difficult, and only occasionally a very weak morning erection. Libido is zero. (i tried viagra and cialis in the past and they give me headaches, I get red, and my heart starts racing and don't really help with erections).
I am not sure what to do next. My values are within normal range, except for Total T. But the other values seem quite low to me. Are they okay for someone mid 30s?
Would HCG help? From how many IU is HCG suppressive? Would a low amount work as a top up to produce a bit more T, like 30 or 40 or 60 IU 3x week without suppressing my natural production of LH?
Would clomid help? Or Should I go the natural route, and try natural supplements like Tongkat Ali or Fadogia Agrestis ?
Or simply maybe in a another couple of months my system will improve?
Can anyone recommend an Endo in London who is really knowledgeable of TRT (using HCG and clomid etc.).
I appreciate any feedback. Sincerely, thanks a lot guys for your time in reading this and your input.
Background:
5 years of anti depressants.
Off the antidepressants, still depressed and low energy, weak erections. Used Epistane 4 times in the 5 year period after the antidepressant, and saw good results at all levels, and hence thought my issue could be testosterone related.
First testosterone test (I think it was total testosterone), result was 10.15mcg/ml , reference range 8.7 to 54.7.
I was told it was normal. Even though to me it seemed low.
Got more and more tired in the years after, until stopped going to the gym, even moving around was difficult, always sleepy, difficulty in lifting knees up or squatting, and very depressed most days.
4 years after the first test, tested again.
Results (done at 10.30 am):
Total T – 2,96 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Dehydroepiandrosterone - 219 mcg/dL (80-560)
No gonodotropins tested. Was given Testim and told to apply 50mg once a week for 3 months.
As I started applying the 50 mg Testim, I felt much better. I then divided the dose in two, applied twice a week, 25mg, then, then titrated to about 37.5 mg daily (3/4s).
I was singing in the shower, life was in colour again, I felt energised, the excruciating pain in my spine/disc went away, physically I felt good, my muscles felt strong, I could sustain my back.Depression and anxiety were going away I could sustain erections a bit better while erect, but for some reason the morning erection was weaker.
Tested again at Testim 37.5mg daily.
Results (done at 10.30 had not applied Testim yet that day before the test):
Total T – 4,42 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Dehydroepiandrosterone - 331,80 mcg/dL (80-560)
Got swapped from Testim to Tostran for better titration.
When using 50 mg Tostran I started feeling bad again. The anxiety was back, and I started experiencing negative things that I experienced before using the testosterone. With high levels of anxiety. Physically I was feeling good, best ever, but at the mental level all the gains prior with Testim were gone and I was feeling bad: Had a pulsing in my head, feet and hands numb, general feeling of unwellness, irritability.
At the time I was on 40 mg daily of Tostran, for a month I used HCG I had bought.
The combination of 40mg Tostran + HCG gave me the best erections I ever had! For the first time in my life I was not worried about sustaining an erection or worried, about sexual intercourse. (could it be that since a teen I had testosterone issues as I had weak erections as a teen? I had a lot of body hair and acne though)
I noticed HCG had an effect of allowing more blood to the penis, along with the testosterone which helped to sustained a better erection, this combination was fantastic.
I was still feeling bad however. I reduced Tostran to 30mg. Still I wasn’t feeling good: Anxiety, blood pressure higher than my normal (at around 135/78), temples pulsating, and pressure on my head, easily irritated, general feeling of unwellnesss in my head.
I then read in the forums people reporting a difference between Tostran and Testim. I went to read more on it and found out that Tostran is delivered in two phases and Testim in three. I then tried what I had left of Testim again for a few days, and I did feel a bit better, but still bad, not good as when I started TRT.
Tested on Tostran 30mg/daily.
Results (done at 11am after applying 30mg Tostran at 8 am):
Total T – 6,51 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Delta -4- Androstenedione - 3,34 ng/mL (Men: 0,6 -3,1)
FSH – 1,18 mU/mL (Men: 0,00 -20,00 / primary hypogonadism 13,00 – 73, 00)
LH – 1,42 mIU/mL (Men: 0.00 – 25.00)
Estradiol – 43,86 pg/mL (Men: 0-90)
T3 – 1,37 ug/ml (0.50 – 2.00)
T4 – 15,35 ug/dL (4,0 -13,0)
T.S.H. 2,92 UI/L (0,50 - 6,00)
T4 and red blood cells a bit high.
Stopped TRT, to be tested 5 weeks after, to know base levels with gonodotropins.
Results :
Total T – 2,90 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9)
Free T – 12, 0 pg/mL (Men 20 to 39 years old 8.8 – 27.00)
SHBG – 38 nmol/L (18,00 – 144, 00)
Delta -4- Androstenedione - 2,88 ng/mL (Men: 0,6 -3,1)
Dehydroepiandrosterone - 192,50 mcg/dL (80-560)
FSH – 2,36 mU/mL (Men: 0,00 -20,00 / primary hypogonadism 13,00 – 73, 00)
LH – 2,96 mIU/mL (Men: 0.00 – 25.00)
17 Beta Estriol – 30,3 pmol/mL (Men: 7.6-42.6)
Cortisol Serum – 20,85 ug/dL (0.04 – 63.44)
So now, Total T and dehydroepiandrosterone are even lower than when I started TRT (then: Total T – 2,96 ng/mL (3,6 – 9,9), Dehydroepiandrosterone - 219 mcg/dL (80-560)
But I don’t feel half as bad as I felt back then. Mood is much more stable, even though at days I do feel light swings, and some small sudden bursts of sadness; but they are bearable. I’m not feeling anxiety.
Energy levels are low, and it is difficult again to sustain my back, aching, and the pain in the spine is back, not as excruciating as before, but some days it is very bad.
I can move around however, I’m not as tired nor as sleepy as prior to TRT; even though now I not on TRT for 7 weeks. I can lift my knees and squat, even have been using some light dumbbells. Blood pressure is down to 110/65, 117/70.
Erections are difficult, and only occasionally a very weak morning erection. Libido is zero. (i tried viagra and cialis in the past and they give me headaches, I get red, and my heart starts racing and don't really help with erections).
I am not sure what to do next. My values are within normal range, except for Total T. But the other values seem quite low to me. Are they okay for someone mid 30s?
Would HCG help? From how many IU is HCG suppressive? Would a low amount work as a top up to produce a bit more T, like 30 or 40 or 60 IU 3x week without suppressing my natural production of LH?
Would clomid help? Or Should I go the natural route, and try natural supplements like Tongkat Ali or Fadogia Agrestis ?
Or simply maybe in a another couple of months my system will improve?
Can anyone recommend an Endo in London who is really knowledgeable of TRT (using HCG and clomid etc.).
I appreciate any feedback. Sincerely, thanks a lot guys for your time in reading this and your input.
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