UPDATE // New Member w/TRT protocol from Defy. Please compare, critique and advise!

[Santana]

Hello Guys!

36 years old, in good shape, commendable physique, 5'10", 183lbs (83kg), 12%BF, Low T for at least 5 years. Tried every diet and lifestyle change possible to address this but to no avail. Finally making the TRT jump!

Here are my lab numbers (LabCorp):
Testosterone, Serum ..... (264 - 916 ng/dL) ........ 197
Testosterone, Free ......... (8.7 - 25.1 pg/nL) ....... 6.4
DHEA .......................... (102.6 - 416.3 ug/dL) ... 235
TSH ............................ (0.450 - 4.500 uIU/mL) . 1.25
LH .............................. (1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL) ....... 5.2
IGF-1 .......................... (88 - 246 ng/mL) ......... 216
Estradiol, Sensitive ........ (8 - 35 pg/mL) ............ 21.9

Here is my protocol:

• T Cyp 150mg/wk (M/W/F)*
• HCG 350iu SQ (M/W/F)*
• Anastrozole 0.125mg (M/W/F)*
• DHEA 25mg every night
• Vitamin D3 5000 iu daily
• Fish oil for HDL support

*T Cyp, HCG and Anastrozole all at the same time

Symptoms:

• Hard-gainer
• Bad sleeper
• Over-worrying
• Can be over-empathetic
• Easily stressed
• Lack of desire and erection quality
• Trouble concentrating
• Occasional brain fog
• Occasional moodiness
• Regular lack of motivation

Also note:

• Highest measure ever of morning test was 385 but this was AFTER doing 6 months of low-dose Clomid.
  • Testosterone doubled (181 -> 385)
  • Estradiol doubled (25.3 -> 49.1)
• Consistent high cholesterol despite clean diet (220-250)
• I have a varicoscele, no pain, no trouble, no atrophy, had a baby three and a half years ago
• Took Propecia for a few months about a decade ago and wonder if that damaged me.
• Pituatary issue ruled out three years ago despite presence of a tiny lesion, due for another MRI

Any concerns with this protocol? Warnings? Suggestions? Similar experiences? My meds will arrive in a couple of days, at which point I will start.

If there is interest in my experience I will keep this updated for the benefit of the community. Hopefully, I will get your support in return!

Thank you!

 

[Vince]

I like your protocol, yes please keep us updated on your progress. Best of luck.

 

[Kirk001]

I'm guessing your SHBG is mid/low range? Yeah good luck keep us updated

 

[LTChris]

welcome to the forum, good luck.

 

[callebs]

I just posted a recommended protocol that also includes anastrozole .125 twice weekly and the feedback I got was that you shouldn't use an AI to start off, but rather wait for follow-up labs to see if it's needed, since it's easier to add it later than recover from an E2 crash. (I will note that my E2 to begin with was 10.2, so considerably lower than yours, but they also have you taking the same AI dose 3x weekly.) See my recent thread for comments.

 

[Vince Carter]

Two things one is the basic anastrozole inclusion which it questionable, may not be needed at all and there's no indication you will need it...I wouldn't take it until you get in to that first set of labs and see what's going on. Also, curious omission of SHBG testing, did you just not put that up for us or was it not tested? Curious because they put you on a M/W/F routine which would indicate SHBG.

 

[Santana]

I missed this in my original post

SBGH is 23.7

 

[MarkM]

I think your protocol looks okay based on your SHBG but I personally don't like the anastrozole built into your solution right off the bat. Your Estradiol Sensitive is sitting at just under 22 on pre-TRT labs and I wouldn't want to see it go lower. A small amount of anastrozole can make a big difference in lowering your estradiol further. But, I am not a doctor, just a simple layman.

 

[Santana]

Two things one is the basic anastrozole inclusion which it questionable, may not be needed at all and there's no indication you will need it...I wouldn't take it until you get in to that first set of labs and see what's going on. Also, curious omission of SHBG testing, did you just not put that up for us or was it not tested? Curious because they put you on a M/W/F routine which would indicate SHBG.

I updated my original post to include my SHBG level of 23.7

The anastrozole is my main concern as I start this. Based on reading people's experiences, E2 crash is what I fear most!

Apart from when to start it at all, are there any concerns about doing taking both at the same time? I've read here that anastrozole does it's thing within 4 hours, while testosterone peaks up to 48 hours after injection. If this is true, would it not be obvious to separate these?

 

[MarkM]

I updated my original post to include my SHBG level of 23.7

The anastrozole is my main concern as I start this. Based on reading people's experiences, E2 crash is what I fear most!

Apart from when to start it at all, are there any concerns about doing taking both at the same time? I've read here that anastrozole does it's thing within 4 hours, while testosterone peaks up to 48 hours after injection. If this is true, would it not be obvious to separate these?

No real concern taking the anastrozole, test, and hcg at the same time. My problem with mixing the anastrozole with the test in the same solution is that you are stuck with it like that..

Playing the devil's advocate here......assume you crash your estradiol, you really can't back off taking it to try and recover because it is mixed with your testosterone. In order to stop taking the anastrozole you have to stop taking the testosterone too. Not a good option in my opinion.

 

[Santana]

I think your protocol looks okay based on your SHBG but I personally don't like the anastrozole built into your solution right off the bat. Your Estradiol Sensitive is sitting at just under 22 on pre-TRT labs and I wouldn't want to see it go lower. A small amount of anastrozole can make a big difference in lowering your estradiol further. But, I am not a doctor, just a simple layman.

Why "based on my SHBG"? I know the pre-TRT level helps determine but I don't understand why.

Also, I took Clomid for 6 months and testosterone doubled but so did E2. Is that a good enough reason to take it up front? Or even simultaneous with Testosterone?

 

[Santana]

No real concern taking the anastrozole, test, and hcg at the same time. My problem with mixing the anastrozole with the test in the same solution is that you are stuck with it like that..

Playing the devil's advocate here......assume you crash your estradiol, you really can't back off taking it to try and recover because it is mixed with your testosterone. In order to stop taking the anastrozole you have to stop taking the testosterone too. Not a good option in my opinion.

They are separate injections but I was told to take them at the same time.

 

[MarkM]

They are separate injections but I was told to take them at the same time.

Okay, huge difference. Personally I would not take the anastrozole unless you have symptoms. You have it on hand if you need it but based on where your E2 sits I don't think it will be necessary. Time will tell.

It is a lot easier to bring the estradiol down if you need to and it is a b*tch to get it up if it gets too low.

 

[callebs]

I thought anastrozole was a pill taken orally? Are you talking about injectable anastrozole mixed with T?

 

[MarkM]

It can be mixed into a testosterone solution and it can be in pill form. Initially I thought you had it mixed into the test solution but that does not appear to be the case. Yo have the pill right? Just don't take the pill unless you actually need it.

 

[Vince Carter]

Taking them together and at the same time does not mean injectable Anastrozole or all three in the same syringe

 

[Santana]

I thought anastrozole was a pill taken orally? Are you talking about injectable anastrozole mixed with T?

Sorry, if I confused anyone.

Protocol is to take all three meds at the same time. The anastrozole is a pill, while the test and HCG are separate injections.

 

[MarkM]

Sorry, if I confused anyone.

Protocol is to take all three meds at the same time. The anastrozole is a pill, while the test and HCG are separate injections.

No worries.........it wasn't you, I'm just a little bit slow.

 

[Santana]

It can be mixed into a testosterone solution and it can be in pill form. Initially I thought you had it mixed into the test solution but that does not appear to be the case. Yo have the pill right? Just don't take the pill unless you actually need it.

Yes, it's a pill. I see it's the lowest dose but I also see it's very powerful and so I'm wary.

I have anxiety every so often. I'd say mild as I can think through it and be logical about things. I've had ED issues, lack of motivation and the other things I listed in the initial post. How would I know I need to take the Anastrozole if I start without it? Would I be waiting for sensitive nipples or something like that?

 

[MarkM]

High E2 and low E2 have similar symptoms but to me the biggest difference in the symptoms is that High E2 makes you extremely emotional. You feel like you want to cry all the time and for reasons that you can not explain. Sensitive nipples, maybe, but sometimes TRT will give people more sensitivity in the nipple but that typically will reside after a while.