unintentional weight loss/inability to gain weight

[Miklu]

so long story short, 21 year old male who's been on trt almost 10 months sustanon 125mg weekly split to 2 shots, hcg 250iux2 week. i've always been very skinny/skinnyfat guy but last couple years when all symptoms started (fatigue,general weakness, throbbing/pressure feeling in head, weird migraine like vision (eye doctor checked my vision and everything is ok) very tight harmstrings that constantly strain, underweight despite being on trt and trying to do weight training etc etc.

I'm 5'10 and currently weighting 125lbs despite eating approximately 3000 calories daily!! highest my weight has been on trt and even on my whole life was about 135-136lbs but that was when i was training kickboxing and mma so there was probably some water weight.

anyway i have very weak feeling, i have back problems probably from not having enough muscle mass supporting my spine etc. (i've been on doctors and chiropractors and they never found anything) very low muscle strength etc.

i'm also currently experimenting on LDN (low dose naltrexone) 3mg daily to see if that would have any effect on my situation but after being on 1,5 months on it, i haven't seen any improvement on my wellbeing yet.

so my question is what could be going on with me? my doctor said it could be lyme but real tests that would actually find it and co-infections cost so much that i don't have money for those tests.

couple years back through public healthcare i was on neurologist who took spinal fluid sample from me and it was all ok, and lots of ofter blood tests as well mri from my head and they never found anything.

so any ideas what could be going on? optimal thyroid and testosterone levels never haven't done anything to improve my overall wellbeing expect increased libido/sex drive and more confident feeling.

sorry about messy writing i can't currently even think clearly.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Miklu:

Could you post your most recent blood work (CBC, CMP, free T3, free T4, TT and FT, estradiol, DHEA)

Also post what your normal day looks like when it comes to diet.

Have you tried nandrolone or another androgen?

 

[Miklu]

here is my latest bloodwork while being on about six months on trt, i'm currently on exact same protocol except i switched injecting subQ to IM because i'm using sustanon and it made lumps everysingle time i injected it subQ. (you already said everything was fine in my bloodwork that i posted in my thread)

Prolactin 182 (53-360) mIU/l

Alkaline phosphatase 44 (35-105) U/l

Aspartate transaminase 30 (15-45) U/l

Alanine transaminase 19 (10-70) U/l

Bilirubin 10 (2-25) µmol/l

Creatinine 83 (60-100) µmol/l

PSA 0.81 MAX 2.50 µg/l

Non-sensitive E2 137.6 MAX 146 pmol/l ( 37.5 pg/ml)

Total Testosterone 20.6 (8.4-28.7) nmol/l (594 ng/dl)

SHBG 25 (17-66) nmol/l

i calculated free t by using one of those sites in internet and it showed
Free testosterone 14.9 ng/dl 2.52%


Lipids

Total Cholesterol 4.8 MAX 5.0 mmol/l

HDL 1.4 MIN 1.0 mmol/l

LDL 3.1 MAX 3.0 mmol/l i'm little worried about this, i didn't found any previous bloodwork that included lipids so i don't know how long its been this high.

Triglyceride 0.65 MAX 2.0 mmol/l

Blood count

White blood cell 5.1 (3.4-8.2)

Red blood cell 4.61 (4.30-5.70)

Hemoglobin 141 (134-167) g/l

Hematocrit 41.6 (39-50.00)%

MCV 90.2 (82-98) fl

MCH 30.6 (27-33) pg

MCHC 339 (320-355) g/l

Thrombocyte/Blood platelet 288 (150-360)

Serum DHT: 2.40 (1.03-2.92) nmol/l

Potassium 4.4 (3.6-5.0) mmol/l

Calsium 2.41 (2.15-2.51) mmol/l

Serum Cortisol: 488 (138-690) nmol/l These labs were taken 9.30 A.M so i guess this would have been higher if taken more earlier like supposed to right?

Sodium 140 (137-145) mmol/l

Free T3 5.09 (3.5-6.5) pmol/l

Free T4 11.56 (10-21) pmol/l

TSH 2.46 (0.4-4) mIU/l

That's all i have, i'm going to get new labs in few months after i've been on trt one year.

i haven't tried any other androgens allthough here in finland it's possible to get nandrolone in 50mg/ml amps but not sure if i get anyone to prescribe it, even this testosterone replacement therapy here in finland is very controversy so i'm lucky to be on that.

my diet typically consists 4-5 meals a day:
Breakfast: oatmeal, eggs,eggwhites,berries,nuts, greek yogurt and some vegetables in my scrambled eggs.

lunch, dinner: usually white rice/sweet potato/normal potatoes with salmon/chicken/ beef along with broccoli asparagus or other vegetables topped with balsamic vinegar, olive oil and pepper.

Snacks: usually fruit with nuts

before bed i usually eat same way i eat early in the day so there is lots of options: sometimes i make chili using this recipe http://www.scrawnytobrawny.com/easy-muscle-building-chili or some salmon soup etc etc. anyway i try to avoid eating bread,muffins candy,chips and other bad stuff expect ilately i've been eating out more often and by eating icecream daily to try get even more calories and overall just trying to consume caloric dense foods, but i'm 100% sure i'm getting enough calories that i should gain weight.

currently supplementing: D-vitamin, magnesium,B-complex and selenium and i'm probably going to try some digestive enzymes to see if that would help me gaining weight.

anyway how much do you think it would help i we would try to increase my testosterone dose a little bit with my doctor? let's say from 125 to 160 or something like that? studies do say that testosterone in low weekly dosages doesn't increase lean mass that much.

 

[Miklu]

Miklu:

Could you post your most recent blood work (CBC, CMP, free T3, free T4, TT and FT, estradiol, DHEA)

Also post what your normal day looks like when it comes to diet.

Have you tried nandrolone or another androgen?

what would be dosage for nandrolone if i can get my doctor to prescribed it? 100-200mg week?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

200 mg nandrolone per week plus 200 mg of testosterone per week is a conservative regimen.

 

[Miklu]

200 mg nandrolone per week plus 200 mg of testosterone per week is a conservative regimen.

okey, thanks a lot! i will update in my thread how things are going down.

 

[Vince]

 

[Miklu]

I tried ldn for few months, never really felt anything but might try again in future, i'm still currently on trt, weighting as much as always before, i'm seeing my doctor in few months and he is willing to try nandrolone if it would help me get my weight up. I'm very curious what really could be the reason for me not being able to gain weight, i guess answer lies somewhere very deep in my body.
Nelson, have you ever encountered person who doesn't response to anabolic steroids?(mainly meaning gains in muscle mass, strength).

 

[maxadvance]

Your at 3000 calories a day and not gaining weight, clearly you have a metabolism that is cranking, you may also be metabolizing your T at a high clip. And 125mg per week ain't shit. And with your hematocrit at 41 I bet your serum T is barely 500. ( I just saw it's at 526)My guess is that your underdosed and you have no need to be discussing deca yet.

You need to be at 180mg per week. That should get you to the 800-900 range. Your TRT has probably taken you backwards from what your body was producing on it's own. Now that the TRT has suppressed natural production you're feeling it.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Miklu

I forgot to ask you. Did you develop all male characteristics through puberty?

 

[Vince Carter]

TSH is less than optimal and T4 is very low, couldn't those be driving his metabolism to high gear?

 

[Miklu]

Your at 3000 calories a day and not gaining weight, clearly you have a metabolism that is cranking, you may also be metabolizing your T at a high clip. And 125mg per week ain't shit. And with your hematocrit at 41 I bet your serum T is barely 500. ( I just saw it's at 526)My guess is that your underdosed and you have no need to be discussing deca yet.

You need to be at 180mg per week. That should get you to the 800-900 range. Your TRT has probably taken you backwards from what your body was producing on it's own. Now that the TRT has suppressed natural production you're feeling it.

thanks for your comment, i will take that to consideration. i'm going to take basic trt labs plus serum igf-1 in few weeks so we'll see what my bloodwork looks like. going take more tests later in a month or two once i get my doctor write them for me so i can get them on insurance

 

[Miklu]

Miklu

I forgot to ask you. Did you develop all male characteristics through puberty?

well physically yes except beard growth but i know that's highly genetical so it propably has nothing or much to do with this. mentally before trt i had very bad self-esteem, i was shy and insecure myself and trt has helped with those things but not feeling well:fatigue, back and hamstring problems along with generall weakness and being so skinny and people all the time reminding about that definitely makes me feeling blue sometimes. like i said in previous post i'm taking bloodwork soon we'll see how everything is looking like.

 

[Miklu]

TSH is less than optimal and T4 is very low, couldn't those be driving his metabolism to high gear?

before trt and a while after beginning it we tried t4 and later NDT and i remember feeling very bad at the time, my free t4 was something like 14 and free t3 was almost top of the range.

 

[lcvl]

Everybody responds differently to TRT but looking at your numbers it seems like 125mg of Test a week is not enough for you. I would ask your doctor to increase your dosage.

As far as nutrition goes, I can tell you from my own personal experience and some of my clients (I work in health/fitness), 3000 cal a day might be not enough for some people.

What does your diet look like? Mostly clean foods? If you think you can't eat more than what you're eating at the moment (not hungry, not enough time to cook, etc.) have you ever tried making your own super-shakes? Drinking calories is usually way easier for people who struggle to put on weight. I'm talking about making your own shakes mixing some protein powder with some good carbs and fat. Think of whey protein+banana+oats+peanut butter. Easiest way to add up to 1000 calories to your diet without even noticing it. One shake a day and re-assess in one month.

As far as exercise/weight training goes, try to avoid cardio sessions and focus on 3 x week full-body weight training sessions. Focus on big, multi joint exercises first. Any kind of squat, deadlift, row/pull, push/press variation. Learn proper technique and work on gradually increasing the weight on the bar.

Hope this helps a bit!

 

[Miklu]

Everybody responds differently to TRT but looking at your numbers it seems like 125mg of Test a week is not enough for you. I would ask your doctor to increase your dosage.

As far as nutrition goes, I can tell you from my own personal experience and some of my clients (I work in health/fitness), 3000 cal a day might be not enough for some people.

What does your diet look like? Mostly clean foods? If you think you can't eat more than what you're eating at the moment (not hungry, not enough time to cook, etc.) have you ever tried making your own super-shakes? Drinking calories is usually way easier for people who struggle to put on weight. I'm talking about making your own shakes mixing some protein powder with some good carbs and fat. Think of whey protein+banana+oats+peanut butter. Easiest way to add up to 1000 calories to your diet without even noticing it. One shake a day and re-assess in one month.

As far as exercise/weight training goes, try to avoid cardio sessions and focus on 3 x week full-body weight training sessions. Focus on big, multi joint exercises first. Any kind of squat, deadlift, row/pull, push/press variation. Learn proper technique and work on gradually increasing the weight on the bar.

Hope this helps a bit!

thank you for your input!
yeah i mostly try to eat cleanly, although these days i try to get also not so "clean calories" to get more them in, i've done super-shakes before from those ingredients you mentioned, also i usually add spinach, chia or flax seeds to them.

what comes to training, i currently don't train Kickboxing or any other cardio type training an i just started starting strength program couple weeks ago, again . i've done it before, first time 3-4 years ago. problem is, at certain point i can't really increase weight without sacrificing technique and this threshold comes on way too lower weights even considering my weight. one problem is my lower back and hamstrings that are so tight that right now after few weeks of squatting (currently squatting sets of 5 on 25kg) my whole body shakes and after training session my lower back pain get worse, deadlift also does this and i really try to concentrate on technique.

really highest i've ever gone before fatigue and other problems couple years back, i got to squatting 45kg, benching 35kg, pressing something like 30, and deadlifting 55kg along with doing 15 reps of chin-ups with my own bodyweight.
at that point i started getting lower back pains and i just couldn't safely get to higher weights without worrying i might broke something. also i just felt like i didn't get stronger and weights didn't get feeling easy and i felt like i was constanly pushing limits.

so yeah, i don't know what is really the problem but something ain't right.

 

[lcvl]

Work on your flexibility and mobility. It's really important.

Also, look for exercise technique's videos. As far as low back pain goes, make sure you're familiar with the concept of "keeping a neutral spine" (keeping your low back arched, in its strongest position, not flexed) during all those compound lifts. It's one of the most common mistakes I see in most gyms. Also, consider the option of hiring a good personal trainer to show you correct technique in those lifts. Ask for credentials first!

You just started working out again, so give it some time. In any case, considering your relatively low body weight, for the next 4-6 months try to eat enough so the scale goes up at least 1kg/2lbs every month.

Hope this helps

 

[Miklu]

Work on your flexibility and mobility. It's really important.

Also, look for exercise technique's videos. As far as low back pain goes, make sure you're familiar with the concept of "keeping a neutral spine" (keeping your low back arched, in its strongest position, not flexed) during all those compound lifts. It's one of the most common mistakes I see in most gyms. Also, consider the option of hiring a good personal trainer to show you correct technique in those lifts. Ask for credentials first!

You just started working out again, so give it some time. In any case, considering your relatively low body weight, for the next 4-6 months try to eat enough so the scale goes up at least 1kg/2lbs every month.

Hope this helps

I will try to keep everything in mind, do you have any general routine/principle to help especially with lower body mobility, mostly harmstring and lower back? I've heard so many different ways i should stretch, use foam roller or tennis balls etc. That i'm pretty confused.

 

[lcvl]

Hard to make a suggestion without seeing how you move first. "Jefferson curls" are a very effective exercise, but be very, very conservative with the weight used. You should not feel any pain during the movement.

 

[Miklu]

so here are some of my newest lab results, protocol when taken these is same: 62,5mg test enanthate x2 week along with 250iu hcg.

GlutamyylitransferaasiTotal testosteronefree T4Trombosyytit

18.08.2016	Alaniiniaminotransferaas	[TD="class: between"]21[/TD]	10	70	U/l	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]	[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]21[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]10[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]80[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]U/l[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Näytä:[/TD]
18.08.2016	Creatine	[TD="class: between"]84[/TD]	60	100	µmol/l	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]	[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]24.0[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]8.4[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]28.7[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]nmol/l[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Näytä:[/TD]
18.08.2016	SHBG	[TD="class: between"]27[/TD]	17	66	nmol/l	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]free T3[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]6.20[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]3.5[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]6.5[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]pmol/l[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Näytä:[/TD]
18.08.2016	TSH	[TD="class: between"]1.95[/TD]	0.40	4.00	mIU/l	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]	[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]14.98[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]10[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]21[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]pmol/l[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Näytä:[/TD]
18.08.2016	E2 (non sensitive assay)	0.15		0.15	nmol/l	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Basic hematology[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Tehty[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"][/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"][/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"][/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"][/TD]
18.08.2016	Leukosyytit	[TD="class: between"]4.6[/TD]	3.4	8.2	E9/L	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]B -Erytrosyytit[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]5.13[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]4.30[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]5.70[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]E12/L[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Näytä:[/TD]
18.08.2016	Hemoglobiini	[TD="class: between"]156[/TD]	134	167	g/l	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]B -Erytrosyytit, tilavuu[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]45.9[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]39.0[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]50.0[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]%[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Näytä:[/TD]
18.08.2016	Erytrosyytit, keskitilav	[TD="class: between"]89.5[/TD]	82.0	98.0	fl	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Hemoglobiini, keskimassa[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]30.4[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]27.0[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]33.0[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]pg[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]Näytä:[/TD]
18.08.2016	Hemoglobiini, keskimassa	[TD="class: between"]340[/TD]	320	355	g/l	Näytä:
[TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]18.08.2016[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]	[/TD] [TD="class: between, bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]331[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]150[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]360[/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]E9/L[/TD]

S -IGF-1: 35 nmol/l

17 - 55

nmol/l

S-IGFBP3: 5.5 mg/l

3.5 - 7.7

mg/l

i also took sensitive e2 but results ain't ready yet. i was very surprised how high my e2 was since it's never been that high but i mistakenly injected too much hcg when i pinned last so that might explain that.