Type 2 and Low T.... On TRT and Trying to gain more Muscle Mass

[Labrat0116]

I'm a 53 yo man finally getting serious about working out. Type 2 Diabetic (under control...current A1C 6.9) and Low T.

Anyways.... I had some very serious muscle damage/loss due to extended use of the Statin Lipitor. I got to the point where I quit using statins all together and NEEDED to get back to the gym and rebuild my muscle mass. I currently work out 1hr 2-3 times per week.

I also have Low-T and Type II diabetes.

My health was deteriorating rapidly and needed to take drastic action.

I started working out at the beginning of this year weighing around 180lbs and 5'9". So far packed on 8-10lbs of muscle and up to 190lbs. I don't have a lot of fat but do have it around my midsection (I'd like to get rid of of course).

So far I have also,

1) Stopped Statins all together.
2) Now taking Fortesta Testosterone gel 50mg/day
3) Bunch different Vitamins to include L-Argenine

I also have been using MuscleTech's Premium Whey Protein Plus. One scoop/shake after workouts. Very pleased! This it the best I have felt my entire life!

Q: What would you recommend I do to rebuild my loss muscle mass and add more ?

I'm liking working out and bodybuilding more that I thought I would. I also have no interest in competing. Just to look and feel great.

Yes, I've been under Dr's care and they are clueless about this issue of adding muscle etc...

TIA

 

[CoastWatcher]

Welcome to Excelmale. How long have you been on TRT? You have been serious about your workouts since the first of this year? Can you provide a bit more detail on diet and type of workout/schedule of workout?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Labrat

Welcome to ExcelMale.com

Adding to what CoastWatcher said, do you have your latest blood work including testosterone, lipids, CBC, CMP and thyroid function? If not, can you ask your doctor for a copy and post here. We can help you so much more with that data.

 

[Labrat0116]

Welcome to Excelmale. How long have you been on TRT? You have been serious about your workouts since the first of this year? Can you provide a bit more detail on diet and type of workout/schedule of workout?

Sure. Thank you for your reply.

I've been on TRT for the past 2 years. Went to the doc last week. He said Free T3 was a high and Total TSTO was still low. I forget to get the actual numbers but will post them when I get them.

I do eat very healthy overall. AM BS usually running a bit high, so heavy on the Protein and lower Carbs in the AM. I also emphasize low fat, no gluten. I do good portion control, mainly to control my BS and have been trying to increase overall protein intake since I began working out.

I started hitting the gym at the end of last year. My schedule only allows me to get 2 sometimes 3 days to the gym. One there, I usually get in a good hour of weight lifting. I don't (yet) have a solid routine down. Pretty much hacking around doing whatever "feels" right. I do rotate on/off days. Meaning one day chest/tris/legs, next day shoulders/bic/back.

My main goal right now is to just do something...anything to rebuild/gain my lost muscle mass. Like I said, my muscle loss and damage was pretty severe. So at this point (after gaining 10lbs of muscle), I do feel great. I'm stronger than I have ever been. I have no aspirations to compete in bodybuilding, but do want to refine my workouts and continue to gain more muscle mass. I need to learn how to shed my mid-section fat as well. Don't we all ! LOL

I did forget to mention that I do drink a MuscleTech shake within a hour post-workout. 40g I believe.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Jay]

Labrat,

You might want to consider getting a fitness coach to get you started on the right track. So many variables to eating/hormones/training to maximize your results. Check out this link http://excelmale.com/NVcoaching/

Jay

 

[Labrat0116]

I should mention this as well, I was also diagnosed with Complex Sleep Apnea about 2 years ago as well. I've been on a CPAP machine since then. I am extremely complaint as I've been sternly warned by my sleep doc that not doing so CAN result in me dying in my sleep. That'll motivate ya huh ! Lol !

I know good quality sleep is essential in one's well being and body rejuvenation. I know it also greatly effects a person's hormones especially men's TSTO levels.

So along with get off those killer Statins, getting on TRT and getting on that CPAP machine really has jump started my life again. Before all of this treatment, I felt absolutely like I was dying a slow death. I was getting extremely weak and very low energy and extremely exhausted even after sleeping.

My wife was after me about all the warning signs and said she was watching me die. Thank God she persisted because I would not be typing this right now.

 

[Labrat0116]

Labrat,

You might want to consider getting a fitness coach to get you started on the right track. So many variables to eating/hormones/training to maximize your results. Check out this link http://excelmale.com/NVcoaching/

Jay

Thanks for your reply/suggestion Jay. On a pretty tight budget at the time so I need to coach myself.

My health conditions are pretty much under control. I do need to learn how to eat to keep control of my BS's and not go Hypo (Low BSs). I need to know how much TRT I really need to get the muscle gains I'm seeking. Along with that, I need to know what supplements I need to be taking as well.

I've been researching workout routines, just need to decide what I really need and refine it down.

Mainly, I just need to stay motivated.

 

[Labrat0116]

Labrat

Welcome to ExcelMale.com

Adding to what CoastWatcher said, do you have your latest blood work including testosterone, lipids, CBC, CMP and thyroid function? If not, can you ask your doctor for a copy and post here. We can help you so much more with that data.

I need to get my current numbers.

I do know for sure my Total TSTO is still low, Free T3 and lipids are a bit high, A1C 6.9, Thryroid, CBC, Chemistries levels are normal.

I'm a Medical Technologist by trade and "should" know the numbers off the top of my head! Lol!

 

[torrential]

Labrat,

Sharing my two cents on workout routines. Each are at different ends of the spectrum but both are quick, "easy," and efficient:

Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is a simple program that develops and builds very effeciently on a M-W-F schedule. Great book and the website has tons of info with videos to help understand the lifts and an active member forum.

Body By Science by Doug McGuff. Once per week - really. Book and website.

 

[Labrat0116]

Labrat,

Sharing my two cents on workout routines. Each are at different ends of the spectrum but both are quick, "easy," and efficient:

Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe is a simple program that develops and builds very effeciently on a M-W-F schedule. Great book and the website has tons of info with videos to help understand the lifts and an active member forum.

Body By Science by Doug McGuff. Once per week - really. Book and website.

Thanks. I will check them out.

I picked up the Body Beast program (used..cheap). It's very detailed and pretty much body builder oriented. I simply don't have the time or dedication for that level of workouts. Plus the eating plans would destroy my BS's.

 

[Vince Carter]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing. It's working. Maybe increase your pre-post workout protein intake, consider some nitric oxide supps like l-Arginine and then the obvious increase in T if supported by lab testing.

 

[Labrat0116]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing. It's working. Maybe increase your pre-post workout protein intake, consider some nitric oxide supps like l-Arginine and then the obvious increase in T if supported by lab testing.

I actually am taking L-Arginine as well.

I'm not sure yet as too how much protein/carbs I need.

I did tell my Doc about my goals and asked if I perhaps need more TSTO. He said as long as my energy/stamina/vitality are good stay status quo.

I would think I need a bit more TSTO to boost the muscle production process. ??

 

[torrential]

Regarding add'l T to boost muscle building, as a novice (not an insult - it applies to anyone with less than two years continuous lifting) you should see good gains in strength and stamina just from working out regularly. Be diligent, but patient! From what you've described you are probably doing all the right things for now. Remember that the best way to naturally increase T is to lift heavy things on a regular basis. Keep going, monitor progress, and work with your doc and the folks here.

What happened to me - and started my journey to better health: After a couple years of relative lethargy I ran these programs and made really good progress in the first year. Around 15 months progress slowed then stopped, meaning no more 5-10 pound adds to the bar each week, every two weeks, or even in a month. My body had plateaued and no amount of work or nutritional tweaking would break through. Eventually discovered hormone modulation, found a doc to help with hormones including T, which was low.

Under a good hormone management program T, thyroid, lipids, and other markers all improved and gym time became fun again, not frustrating. Started to make gains again and now lift as appropriate for my body type and intensity level, which was not the case before.

As said, seems to me you're on the right track.

 

[Labrat0116]

Body By Science by Doug McGuff. Once per week - really. Book and website.

I thought this sounded familiar. I bought a few books a couple months ago and this was one of them. I just need to find the time to read it.

 

[ERO]

If you have been on TRT for 2 years and your total T is still low, I would give serious thought to switching to twice weekly injections instead of the gel. Many guys never get to a good total T level on gels and switch for that reason.

 

[Labrat0116]

Adding to what CoastWatcher said, do you have your latest blood work including testosterone, lipids, CBC, CMP and thyroid function?

Ok, here's what I got.

Non-Fasting, (2) hour Post TRT (gel) applied.

- TSTO...... 328.17
- TSH........ 1.370
- TPSA........2.0
- FT3......... 2.79
- FT4......... 0.9
- CORT....... 8.91
- FERR....... 60
- IRON....... 86

The rest of my Chems and CBC are on printouts off my analzyers. So pardon the format.

(See Attachements)

 

[CoastWatcher]

Ok, here's what I got.

Non-Fasting, (2) hour Post TRT (gel) applied.

- TSTO...... 328.17
- TSH........ 1.370
- TPSA........2.0
- FT3......... 2.79
- FT4......... 0.9
- CORT....... 8.91
- FERR....... 60
- IRON....... 86

The rest of my Chems and CBC are on printouts off my analzyers. So pardon the format.

(See Attachements)

None of these report the reference ranges, if you have them, t would be a help, a big help. Nonetheless, your testosterone is surprisingly low given you have been on TRT for some time. ERO wrote that, if you are using a topical, you may simply be one of those men who do not absorb those products well. A lot of us, I am one of them, don't achieve healthy, robust values with topical application. Injections make a world of difference. Have you and your doctor discussed a change in protocol? Did you have SHBG pulled?

 

[Labrat0116]

None of these report the reference ranges, if you have them, t would be a help, a big help. Nonetheless, your testosterone is surprisingly low given you have been on TRT for some time. ERO wrote that, if you are using a topical, you may simply be one of those men who do not absorb those products well. A lot of us, I am one of them, don't achieve healthy, robust values with topical application. Injections make a world of difference. Have you and your doctor discussed a change in protocol? Did you have SHBG pulled?

I don't have the normal ranges handy right now, but WikiPedi has them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests

He wants wanted me to stay the course as far as the topical gel TRT. I'll have to check with him on the injectable next time I see him.

We don't perform SHBG here in our lab.

 

[ERO]

If your doctors has had you on topical gel for 2 years, your total T is still only at 328 and he wants you to stay the course...then you need a new doctor that understands TRT. Seriously, I am not saying that to be sarcastic, but your doc clearly is not a TRT expert. A total T of 328 would be a good level if you were between 85 and 90 years old.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I don't have the normal ranges handy right now, but WikiPedi has them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests

He wants wanted me to stay the course as far as the topical gel TRT. I'll have to check with him on the injectable next time I see him.

We don't perform SHBG here in our lab.

Stay the course? Two years on a topical, no real improvement...your doctor is not provoding you with the standard of care you are entitled to.