TRT PCT log for future reference

[kafahmy]

Hello,

AGE: 29
Weigh: 210lbs
Waist : 36


Long story short, been on TRT for 12 month (Test Cypionate 100-180mg/week + HCG + Arimidex) . It has never been easy for me to dial in as I am an Arimidex over responder ( even at .125mg Arimidex I tend to crash my E2). I have tried many protocols (injecting twice a week- 3 times a week- SQ and IM) basically I have done it all with no real success.

At this point, I decided to come off before it's too late (12 month on TRT won't make recovery easy anyways) and try to figure out why I was low before TRT at the first place. If that doesn't work out than I am on TRT for life and I'll have to live with it.

I have been reading about PCT for a while and the information is all over the place. Thousands of protocols but very few logs so I decided to record my experience for anyone who is going throw the same expereince.

for PCT, I have seen people swearing by Torem, others using only Nolvadex or Clomid. I have seem people combining Clomid and Nolva while other think it's a bad idea. Some add Aromisin and some advocate against it but again with no real logs and first hand experience.

So please feel free to suggest any modification in my protocol ONLY IF you have a first hand experience with PCTs. Nelson of course you can say whatever and whenever
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre PCT : 400iU hcg/ Daily for 14-21 days
* the lenght of my HCG phase will depend on the E2 , if high E2 symptoms occurs than I stick to only 2 weeks. I can't risk using Arimidex and crashing my E2 during the recovery phase...Chime in if you have a better idea


PCT : Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolvadex: 20/20/10/10/10/10

Supplements: Multivitamin/ZMA/Vitamin D/ Fish oil

Blood work 4 weeks following PCT

Edit: Should I add Nolva at 10mg/day during the HCG phase ?

WISH ME LUCK

 

[Vince]

If Arimidex caused you so many issues why did you continue using it?

 

[kafahmy]

I did not know that I was an over responder until 3 month ago. The high and low Estrogen symptoms in my case were very similar and I never caught it in the lab results until recently

My estrogen ramps up at any dose beyond 100mg/week, so I had to use an AI anyways but I was just taking about 25% of what's in the capsule when my E2 feels high . it kind of works, but never allows by E2 serum to stabilize and I it feels like a roalcoaster . I have been on only 100mg/week plus HCG for about 5 weeks and had no E2 issues yet but all the TRT benefits that I used to feel when I was dialed in has vanished. TRT has become very stressful and a hectic procedure, I wish it made me feel better like the majority of the people on this forum but I was not as fortunate as most of you guys

 

[kafahmy]

Day3 ( one week since last T injection):
HCG 500iu

+ve: good mood, good energy, workouts at the gym of the same intensity , spontaneous erections are coming back and morning woods too.

-ve: Scortum starting to tight up which I attribute to high estrogen symptom. No water retention, no itchy nipples so I'll wait as long as I could before I introduce some adex (maybe quarter of the 0.125 capsule and see what happens)

Note: from what I've read the +ve above are common while the ester clears the system, I know once I introduce the clomid and Nolva that things won't be as good.

 

[robyrto]

Day3 ( one week since last T injection):
HCG 500iu

+ve: good mood, good energy, workouts at the gym of the same intensity , spontaneous erections are coming back and morning woods too.

-ve: Scortum starting to tight up which I attribute to high estrogen symptom. No water retention, no itchy nipples so I'll wait as long as I could before I introduce some adex (maybe quarter of the 0.125 capsule and see what happens)

Note: from what I've read the +ve above are common while the ester clears the system, I know once I introduce the clomid and Nolva that things won't be as good.

Ì ve the same issues about the scrotum high when i start hcg ... but my e2 is in the low range ...any advise?

 

[kafahmy]

they tend to get loose and hanging nicely after couple hours of the administration of the HCG, I am not having any E2 issues honestly. Good lipido and good erections

 

[kafahmy]

Day7
HCG 500iu

+ve: good mood, good energy, workouts at the gym of the same intensity. Lipido is Good and erections are decent.

-ve: nothing to report so far.

 

[kafahmy]

started clomid and Nolva yesterday (will update weekly)

i'm dosing them together in the morning

Day 2 PCT (50 clomid/ 20 nolva)

cjc 1295 no dac/ ipamorelin (100mcg each/ 3 times day)

Pros: no emotional sides yet (my biggest fear)

Cons: tiredness, low sex drive, water retention

Notes: will take the SERMs before bed and see if the fatigue issue resolves.

I'm not expecting to feel great on PCT anyways so i'm not disappointed.

i may do basic blood work (test and estradiol) 2 weeks into PCT to ensure that my SERM is not bunk.

 

[kafahmy]

Day 3 PCT (quik update)


I realized that my fatigue goes away in the afternoon which makes me think that the Serms makes me tired. So I Skipped morning Clomid dose (will do before bed) and did only Nolva in the morning and my fatigue got waaay better. Starting tomorrow, I will do both Clomid and Nolva before bed and will keep it this way.for the next 6 weeks


On the +ve side: I got few spontaneous erections and morning woods & last night I had Porn start loads ..my girl seemed happy with the quantity too so I'm pretty sure my clomid is legit. All going well so far hopefully lipido will come back soon.

 

[kafahmy]

End of Week 2 PCT:
SERMS: clomid 50, Nolva 20


Supporting Supplements: Multi Vitamin, fish oil, zinc, vitamin C


I had to drop clomid to 25mg in the middle of my second week due to some vision problems. Getting up in the morning and feeling like you are in a steam room wasn't fun.Nothing extreme and it was only in bright light and lasted for 15 minutes or so but it was enough to make me cut the dose in half. the Vision sides are gone now so I will keep it this way for 2 the next 2 weeks.


PROS: Everything feels normal, energy is back to normal, Works out are fine, no more muscle loss and water gain it feels like I am recovering.
Cons: zero lipido , i get few spontaneous erections, and if I want one i can get it up but the desire is simply not there. This is common with SERM use ...or so I've heard.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Why not follow this protocol?

https://www.excelmale.com//content....afely-and-Possibly-Reset-Your-Hormonal-Axis)?

 

[kafahmy]

Why not follow this protocol?

https://www.excelmale.com//content....afely-and-Possibly-Reset-Your-Hormonal-Axis)?

Nelson, I'm already 3 weeks into PCT. I wish you chimed in earlier
I will give it a go if, god forbid, my restart fails.

In your opinion, is 25mg clomid/20mg nolva enough to stimulate the pituitary glands to release more hormones or should I raise the Clomid back to 50mg now that the vision sides are gone?

Would it make sense to test Testosterone level at this point to gauge the SERM dose ? I know SERMS will give fault readings but can we conclude form any lab work whether or not my body is responding to the HPTA restart attempt ?

Finally, why in the world I feel so great on some days and then feel like crap on the following days. I feel bipolar on PCT, is it the hormone fluctuations ? is it common ?

 

[kafahmy]

End of Week 4 update:


So far I've been on (Clomid/Nolva):

week1: 50/20
week2: 50/20 (except for 2 days, i dropped clomid to 25 due to vision sides)
week3 :25/20
week4 :25/20 + OTC test booster "Sheer Testosterone"


By the end of Week3 I started to feel good, the past week has been great, making gains at the gym and feeling mentally and physical great. Sex drive is half way back and erections are also good...a Low dose tadafil here and there is also helping big time.


Blood work done at the end of WEEK4 to gauge the response of my HTPA, I will post results soon. if LH and FSH are over the range(hopefully),then I'll drop clomid/nolva to 12.5/10 for 2 more weeks then stop, wait for 6 weeks and do complete blood work.


Overall I feel like I'm recovering pretty well, first 2 weeks were not as fun but I am finally starting to feel just great, much better than when I was on TRT for sure!


Thanks for following and good luck if you going through the same journey, I know FROM EXPERIENCE that it is very exhausting.

 

[kafahmy]

LAB WORK RESULTS:

Lab work was done on 6/1/2018
Clomid/Nolva PCT started on 05/05/2018

LH 11.7 mIU/mL ( 1.7 - 8.6)
FSH 5.2 mIU/mL (1.5/12.4)

Testosterone 643 ng/dl (264-916)
Free Testosterone 13.7 pg/mL (9.3 - 26.5)

Estradiol, Sensitive 22.8 pg/ml (8.0 - 35.0)

-I really am not sure what the results mean in this case , for one : LH is over the range but FSH is within normal range ? shouldn't they both be within or over the range ?
-Test level is mid range, I was under the impression that Clomid+Nolva get's the test level in the 1000 range and the test level drops to mid range 4-6 weeks after the discontinue of SERMS. Can it be that I am still recovering and the test level will keep increasing ?
I will stay on Nolva/Clomid for 3 more weeks dropping to 12.5/10 for the last 2 weeks .

Maybe someone can help interpreting the results ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I would not worry too much. The real test is what happens after 8 weeks of stopping PCT.

By the way, I created an affordable post PCT panel:

Post PCT Panel

 

[kafahmy]

By the way, I created an affordable post PCT panel:

Post PCT Panel

This is awesome Nelson, I use Discountedlabs all the time, good to know I can save some $ on this panel!

 

[kafahmy]

last week of PCT update:


So far I have done the following:


week1: 50/20
week2: 50/20 (except for 2 days, i dropped clomid to 25 due to vision sides)
week3 :25/20
week4 :25/20 + OTC test booster "Sheer Testosterone"
Week5: 12.5/10 OTC test booster "Sheer Testosterone"
Week6: 12.5/10 OTC test booster "Sheer Testosterone"
Last week : 10 mg Nolvadex.


Will wait 6 weeks and redo blood work. Been feeling really great mentally and physically lately; great energy, great sense of well being. Finally got to feel normal .


The only mistake I've made "I guess" would be using some Cialis or Viagra on few occasions. I have this very weird reaction from PDE5 inhibitors (just guessing) as i get great results from a friction of the recommended dose but I feel like I am not myself for few days after using. I think it has a strong impact on my estrogen level (brain fog, fatigue,looking fat!) ...will need to confirm that with blood work of course but for now I'll just stop using them completely and enjoy feeling great. hopefully it will last after the discontinue of the SERMs.


Next update in 8 weeks...
Cheers!

 

[lowe2sucks]

interesting.. So you think pde5 inhibitors lower your estradiol?

 

[kafahmy]

interesting.. So you think pde5 inhibitors lower your estradiol?

I think it does. I was over responding to the AI while on TRT, also a 2-3mg (liquid Cialis) gives me super strong erections for like 3 days straingt. I know it definitely increases my test level (proven via blood work before) also I look more shredded when I take Cialis for around 36 hours post administration. I thought since Viagra leaves the system in 8 hours that this would be a better fit for me. But nope, same issue. Maybe estrogen problem, maybe something else...

 

[kafahmy]

Lab work !!!

I did lab work twice so far and the results are as follow :

1) Collected on 07/30/2018 8:50 AM

Testosterone, Free, LCM/MS/MS 89.4 pg/mL 46.0 - 224.0 pg/mL
LH 6.45 mIU/mL 1.50 - 9.30 mIU/mL
TSH 1.70 uIU/mL 0.35 - 4.50 uIU/mL
T3, Free 2.4 pg/mL 2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
Free T4 0.85 ng/dL 0.60 - 1.60 ng/dL

2) Collected on 08/29/2018 8:50 AM (range was not provided ! but it says normal)
Testosterone Total (84403) 4.48 ng/ml normal
Testosterone Free 84402 43.30% normal
SHBG 36.84 nmo/L normal
Estrogens,Total 74pg/ml normal

i can't compare results from Pre TRT as the test was using different units and ranges but it looks like I am within normal (low normal) range on everything so I beleive I should call my PCT a success.

As for how I feel:
Some days are better than others but I feel slightly off specially in the mornings and when I get less than 8 hours of sleep.
Sex Drive is almost non existent, it was better during and post PCT but it started to fade until it almost disappeared, I still manage to masturbate in an attempt to bring it back , and erection is not bad but the desire is simply not there.

Supplements/ medication:

Test boosters: Animal test (previous), currently on Animal Stak
Peptides: GHRP6 AND cjc 1295 no Dac 2-3 times/day and IGF LR3
Other: multivitamin, fish oil, Whey, fat burner, Preworkout.

Overall, I lost some muscle and gained lot of fat due to bad mood ****ty food blah blah but I have been back on track lately and I believe the peptides are helping big time to get back in shape.

I have been off Testosterone since Aril and my PCT was over in July. it's been 2 month since I came off everything but I still don't feel right. I will give it till January, if I don't get better I think I may consider self TRT or maybe a short cycle then "the power pct" by Scally as a last resort before going TRT for life.

If you have thoughts or suggestions please share & good luck if you are going through the same journey!