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Testosterone Basics & Questions
TRT & benzo withdrawal, please help.
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<blockquote data-quote="madman" data-source="post: 266135" data-attributes="member: 13851"><p>This is not a given.</p><p></p><p>Sounds like scare tactics to me.</p><p></p><p>Piss poor quality of life, being more prone to CVD, prostate cancer, osteoporosis....sure.</p><p></p><p>A given that it will lead to numerous diseases let alone a death sentence....NAH!</p><p></p><p>You have clearly wasted too much of your time on that other forum bumNATION!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>1.2.3 Castration through the times </strong></p><p></p><p><em>In Greek mythology castration already occurred among the first generation of gods. Gaea, mother earth, grew out of the chaos and produced Uranos by parthenogenesis, with whom she then generated the titan Chronos. When Uranos prevented Gaea from creating children with their son Chronos, she induced Chronos to castrate his father. This episode has been depicted beautifully in a fresco by Giorgio Vasari (1511–1574) in the Palazzo Vecchio in Florence. Uranos’ testes, thrown into the sea, caused the water to foam, and out of these bubbles the foamborn goddess of love Aphrodite (= Venus) was born. Quite extraordinary events in terms of reproductive physiology.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>In the real world, castration has been practiced for socio-cultural purposes since antiquity. Its major purpose was to generate obedient slaves who were loyal to their masters or rulers and who, being infertile, could not create competing offspring. <strong>Set to guarding harems, they also, and in larger numbers, obtained influential administrative and political positions as in China, and formed elite troops (Mitamura 1992; Flaig 2009).</strong></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Although most likely already practiced earlier, the earliest documentation of creating eunuchs in China dates back to about 1300 BC. <strong>The Chinese eunuch system, with several thousands at a time, continued until the end of the imperial system in 1912. In the nineteenth century there were still about 2000 eunuchs at the imperial court in Beijing. </strong></em><strong><em><u>The last Chinese eunuch died at the age of 93 in 1996</u>. </em></strong><em>Only the fact that imperial eunuchs could obtain highranking positions and considerable power as well as wealth makes it plausible that adult men underwent this gruesome operation. It was performed by “licensed surgeons” just outside the imperial court in Beijing, by cutting off testes and penis. About 25% of the volunteers did not survive this bloody operation. The severed genitals were kept in a box, as shown in the film “The Last Emperor” (1987), and were eventually buried with their owner.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Eunuchs probably already existed in ancient Egypt. From the times of the legendary Queen Semiramis (about 800 BC) eunuchs were reported from Assyria, and the system developed and continued into the Islamic world in the Middle East and North Africa. <strong>Over centuries, slaves were deported from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Islamic cities and courts, and many of the slaves who survived the exhausting march through the desert were then <u>castrated to serve as laborers, guards, administrators and even soldiers</u> (Barth 1857). <u>It is astonishing that these tasks could be fulfilled without the anabolic effects of testosterone</u>.</strong></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>It has been estimated that the transatlantic deportation of Africans to the Americas between 1450 and 1870 comprised about 11.5 million people, while the entire Islamic deportation of slaves from Africa between 650 and 1920 amounted to 17 million people, and <strong>several million of these African slaves were castrated.</strong> This constant drain of manpower effectively prevented economic and cultural development of Sub-Saharan Africa. In medieval times slaves were also exported from Europe to the Islamic countries. These slaves were mainly from Eastern European (Slavic) and Central Asian countries. There were well-established slave routes through Europe, and Verdun has the questionable historical fame of having been the European center for castration of slaves on their way from the East to the South at those times (Flaig 2009).</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Castration has also been practiced as lawful punishment. In medieval Scandinavia, castration combined with blinding was administered for high treason, especially when the insurgent was a close relative whom one did not want to kill directly. As told in the Islendinga Saga, Sturla of the Sturlungar Clan in Iceland castrated and blinded his rebelling relative Oraekja Snorrason in 1236 (personal communication from U. Ebel, Chair of Scandinavian Sciences, University of Münster, 2007). When the Normans migrated south they also introduced this penal practice in the areas they invaded. When he established his reign in Britain after 1066, William the Conqueror abolished the Anglo-Saxon death penalty and replaced it by castration and blinding: “I also forbid that anyone shall be slain or hanged for any fault, but let his eyes be put out and let him be castrated” (Van Eickels 2004). As a further example, in Sicily in 1194 King William III was castrated and blinded after a rebellion against Emperor Henry VI. This episode forms the historical background for Klingsor’s castration in the Parsifal epos (Tuchel 1998). The Toulouse Law Codex of 1296 described (and depicted) castration for high treason.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Throughout the centuries, castration was applied to beaten enemies by victorious soldiers for revenge and as a measure to eliminate the enemies without outright killing. When Italian troops invaded Ethiopia and lost the battle of Aduwa in 1896, supposedly 7000 Italian soldiers were castrated (Melicow 1977). As reported by Babtschenko (2007), this still happened on both sides during the Chechen War in the Caucasus in 1996.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Castration has also been reported as self-mutilation for religious reasons since ancient times in order to make a life of chastity easier. The early church father Origines (186–254) is one of the most prominent examples. In the eleventh to fourteenth centuries the sect of the Catharers, with their strongholds in Southern France, promulgated self-castration as part of a “pure” life. More recently, castration was practiced in Southern Russia among members of the Scoptic sect founded in the eighteenth century, and the medical consequences were documented (Wilson and Roehrborn 1999). <strong>The largest contemporary group of castrates are the hijras in India. They function as professional well-wishers at birth rites, and receive considerable financial rewards. Several thousand of them exist.</strong></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Castration has also been used as revenge for seduction and adultery through the centuries. For example, Paris has been reported to have castrated Peritanos after he had seduced his famous wife Helena (Lehrs 1832). The case of the great medieval theologian and philosopher Peter Abaelard (1079– 1142) has been celebrated in history and literature. As master of the cathedral school in Paris he seduced one of his disciples, Heloise (1100–1164), whose uncle then had Abaelard castrated by paid criminals. Despite the lack of testosterone, one of the most romantic love stories documented by literature developed (Podlech 1990). This type of revenge continues into most recent times as demonstrated by an incident in Germany in 2011 when the father of a 17-year-old girl castrated her 57-year-old lover (Holzhaider 2011). These people had migrated to Germany from Kazakhstan and might have brought rules of self-justice with them.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Castration before puberty maintains the high voice of boys, so that soprano and alto voices with the acoustic volume of an adult male result. Such high-pitched voices were considered desirable among music lovers, especially at times when women were not allowed to sing in church or in operatic performances. <strong>Prepubertal castrates belonged to casts of operas in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries; in the Vatican choirs these voices could be heard until the early twentieth century. Some of these castrates became famous soloists, such as Carlo Farinelli (<u>1705–1782</u>) or Domenico Annibaldi (<u>1705–1779</u>) (Melicow 1983; Ortkemper 1993; Jenkins 1998). The middle Italian city of Nurcia was a center for the operation on young boys. However, most of the thousands of prepubertal castrates lost their virility in vain as they did not achieve the promised career as a singer, developed only mediocre voices and were ridiculed by their contemporaries. An impression of the castrato voice, although of very low recording quality, is preserved from the last Vatican castrato, Alessandro Moreschi (<u>1858–1922</u>), in one of the earliest gramophone recordings, made in 1902 (available today on CD).</strong> Today countertenors applying a trained falsetto sing the castrato roles in, for example, Händel operas, but their head voices probably only approximate those of seventeenth-century castrati. Another impression of the enormous artistic talents of the castrati is provided by the recordings of the mezzo-soprano Cecilia Bartoli, who trained her voice to sing the extremely demanding arias by Nicola Porpora (1686–1768), Georg Friedrich Händel (1685–1759) and others (Bartoli 2009).</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>Prepubertal castration provides an involuntary experiment on the influence of testosterone on longevity. A retrospective comparison of the life expectancy of singers born between 1580 and 1859 and castrated before puberty, in order to preserve their high voices, against intact singers born at the same time, did not reveal a significant difference between the lifespan of intact and castrated singers (Fig.1.1; Nieschlag et al. 1993). This would imply that the presence or absence of normal male testosterone levels has no influence on life expectancy</strong></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="madman, post: 266135, member: 13851"] This is not a given. Sounds like scare tactics to me. Piss poor quality of life, being more prone to CVD, prostate cancer, osteoporosis....sure. A given that it will lead to numerous diseases let alone a death sentence....NAH! You have clearly wasted too much of your time on that other forum bumNATION! [B]1.2.3 Castration through the times [/B] [I]In Greek mythology castration already occurred among the first generation of gods. Gaea, mother earth, grew out of the chaos and produced Uranos by parthenogenesis, with whom she then generated the titan Chronos. When Uranos prevented Gaea from creating children with their son Chronos, she induced Chronos to castrate his father. This episode has been depicted beautifully in a fresco by Giorgio Vasari (1511–1574) in the Palazzo Vecchio in Florence. Uranos’ testes, thrown into the sea, caused the water to foam, and out of these bubbles the foamborn goddess of love Aphrodite (= Venus) was born. Quite extraordinary events in terms of reproductive physiology. In the real world, castration has been practiced for socio-cultural purposes since antiquity. Its major purpose was to generate obedient slaves who were loyal to their masters or rulers and who, being infertile, could not create competing offspring. [B]Set to guarding harems, they also, and in larger numbers, obtained influential administrative and political positions as in China, and formed elite troops (Mitamura 1992; Flaig 2009).[/B] Although most likely already practiced earlier, the earliest documentation of creating eunuchs in China dates back to about 1300 BC. [B]The Chinese eunuch system, with several thousands at a time, continued until the end of the imperial system in 1912. In the nineteenth century there were still about 2000 eunuchs at the imperial court in Beijing. [/B][/I][B][I][U]The last Chinese eunuch died at the age of 93 in 1996[/U]. [/I][/B][I]Only the fact that imperial eunuchs could obtain highranking positions and considerable power as well as wealth makes it plausible that adult men underwent this gruesome operation. It was performed by “licensed surgeons” just outside the imperial court in Beijing, by cutting off testes and penis. About 25% of the volunteers did not survive this bloody operation. The severed genitals were kept in a box, as shown in the film “The Last Emperor” (1987), and were eventually buried with their owner. Eunuchs probably already existed in ancient Egypt. From the times of the legendary Queen Semiramis (about 800 BC) eunuchs were reported from Assyria, and the system developed and continued into the Islamic world in the Middle East and North Africa. [B]Over centuries, slaves were deported from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Islamic cities and courts, and many of the slaves who survived the exhausting march through the desert were then [U]castrated to serve as laborers, guards, administrators and even soldiers[/U] (Barth 1857). [U]It is astonishing that these tasks could be fulfilled without the anabolic effects of testosterone[/U].[/B] It has been estimated that the transatlantic deportation of Africans to the Americas between 1450 and 1870 comprised about 11.5 million people, while the entire Islamic deportation of slaves from Africa between 650 and 1920 amounted to 17 million people, and [B]several million of these African slaves were castrated.[/B] This constant drain of manpower effectively prevented economic and cultural development of Sub-Saharan Africa. In medieval times slaves were also exported from Europe to the Islamic countries. These slaves were mainly from Eastern European (Slavic) and Central Asian countries. There were well-established slave routes through Europe, and Verdun has the questionable historical fame of having been the European center for castration of slaves on their way from the East to the South at those times (Flaig 2009). Castration has also been practiced as lawful punishment. In medieval Scandinavia, castration combined with blinding was administered for high treason, especially when the insurgent was a close relative whom one did not want to kill directly. As told in the Islendinga Saga, Sturla of the Sturlungar Clan in Iceland castrated and blinded his rebelling relative Oraekja Snorrason in 1236 (personal communication from U. Ebel, Chair of Scandinavian Sciences, University of Münster, 2007). When the Normans migrated south they also introduced this penal practice in the areas they invaded. When he established his reign in Britain after 1066, William the Conqueror abolished the Anglo-Saxon death penalty and replaced it by castration and blinding: “I also forbid that anyone shall be slain or hanged for any fault, but let his eyes be put out and let him be castrated” (Van Eickels 2004). As a further example, in Sicily in 1194 King William III was castrated and blinded after a rebellion against Emperor Henry VI. This episode forms the historical background for Klingsor’s castration in the Parsifal epos (Tuchel 1998). The Toulouse Law Codex of 1296 described (and depicted) castration for high treason. Throughout the centuries, castration was applied to beaten enemies by victorious soldiers for revenge and as a measure to eliminate the enemies without outright killing. When Italian troops invaded Ethiopia and lost the battle of Aduwa in 1896, supposedly 7000 Italian soldiers were castrated (Melicow 1977). As reported by Babtschenko (2007), this still happened on both sides during the Chechen War in the Caucasus in 1996. Castration has also been reported as self-mutilation for religious reasons since ancient times in order to make a life of chastity easier. The early church father Origines (186–254) is one of the most prominent examples. In the eleventh to fourteenth centuries the sect of the Catharers, with their strongholds in Southern France, promulgated self-castration as part of a “pure” life. More recently, castration was practiced in Southern Russia among members of the Scoptic sect founded in the eighteenth century, and the medical consequences were documented (Wilson and Roehrborn 1999). [B]The largest contemporary group of castrates are the hijras in India. They function as professional well-wishers at birth rites, and receive considerable financial rewards. Several thousand of them exist.[/B] Castration has also been used as revenge for seduction and adultery through the centuries. For example, Paris has been reported to have castrated Peritanos after he had seduced his famous wife Helena (Lehrs 1832). The case of the great medieval theologian and philosopher Peter Abaelard (1079– 1142) has been celebrated in history and literature. As master of the cathedral school in Paris he seduced one of his disciples, Heloise (1100–1164), whose uncle then had Abaelard castrated by paid criminals. Despite the lack of testosterone, one of the most romantic love stories documented by literature developed (Podlech 1990). This type of revenge continues into most recent times as demonstrated by an incident in Germany in 2011 when the father of a 17-year-old girl castrated her 57-year-old lover (Holzhaider 2011). These people had migrated to Germany from Kazakhstan and might have brought rules of self-justice with them. Castration before puberty maintains the high voice of boys, so that soprano and alto voices with the acoustic volume of an adult male result. Such high-pitched voices were considered desirable among music lovers, especially at times when women were not allowed to sing in church or in operatic performances. [B]Prepubertal castrates belonged to casts of operas in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries; in the Vatican choirs these voices could be heard until the early twentieth century. Some of these castrates became famous soloists, such as Carlo Farinelli ([U]1705–1782[/U]) or Domenico Annibaldi ([U]1705–1779[/U]) (Melicow 1983; Ortkemper 1993; Jenkins 1998). The middle Italian city of Nurcia was a center for the operation on young boys. However, most of the thousands of prepubertal castrates lost their virility in vain as they did not achieve the promised career as a singer, developed only mediocre voices and were ridiculed by their contemporaries. An impression of the castrato voice, although of very low recording quality, is preserved from the last Vatican castrato, Alessandro Moreschi ([U]1858–1922[/U]), in one of the earliest gramophone recordings, made in 1902 (available today on CD).[/B] Today countertenors applying a trained falsetto sing the castrato roles in, for example, Händel operas, but their head voices probably only approximate those of seventeenth-century castrati. Another impression of the enormous artistic talents of the castrati is provided by the recordings of the mezzo-soprano Cecilia Bartoli, who trained her voice to sing the extremely demanding arias by Nicola Porpora (1686–1768), Georg Friedrich Händel (1685–1759) and others (Bartoli 2009). [B]Prepubertal castration provides an involuntary experiment on the influence of testosterone on longevity. A retrospective comparison of the life expectancy of singers born between 1580 and 1859 and castrated before puberty, in order to preserve their high voices, against intact singers born at the same time, did not reveal a significant difference between the lifespan of intact and castrated singers (Fig.1.1; Nieschlag et al. 1993). This would imply that the presence or absence of normal male testosterone levels has no influence on life expectancy[/B][/I] [/QUOTE]
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