Transitioning from subQ test cyp to cream

[[email protected]]

I have been on daily subq injections of 20 mg of test cyp 200 mg per ml for about 3 years. TT has consistently been between 850 - 1000 with free T running mid to high 20's. E2 has always run a little high between 40 - 55 but has been in lows 70's the past 10 months. DHT runs between 25 and 40. Been having issues with a lack of penile sensitivity this year which I suspect is due to either the high E2 or lower DHT. I started T cream applied to the scrotum daily 5 days ago but have noticed and change? Anyone have any experience on this? Do I just need to give it more time. Test cream is 100 mg per ml in lipoderm base. I apply 1 ml in the morning after a shower.

 

[slicktop]

I'm curious: what caused the major protocol change as opposed to the addition of low dose AI?

 

[Systemlord]

TT has consistently been between 850 - 1000 with free T running mid to high 20's. E2 has always run a little high between 40 - 55 but has been in lows 70's the past 10 months.

I see perfectly what the problem is, there are many ways to deal with high estrogen. I wonder do you need to have FT levels in the high 20's, maybe you can get away with less and considering FT converts to estrogen, less of one leads to a decrease of the other.

The T-creams don't work for everyone.

 

[[email protected]]

I've tried low does AI and E2 levels we impossible to manage. I've also read quite a bit of negatives on use of AI's. Apparently even Crisler changed his stance on use of AI's just before his death. With regard to lowering injection dose I'm concerned about a further reduction in DHT which I've read is the primary driver of All Things Male.

 

[Vman]

I apply 1 ml in the morning after a shower.

A lot of people do not absorb cream well (including me). My buddy and I started on cream at the same time. He achieved awesome TT and FT levels on the initial dose and I was not able to reach his levels even at 4 times his dose.

Also, most cream protocols are 2xday, just fyi.

 

[S1W]

It looks like you went from 140mg/week (injections) to 100mg/week cream.

Your E2 will almost certainly go down, but TT/FT will too. Did you intend to lower overall dose that much?

IMHO should try 200mg/ml cream (all around easier to work with) at least 150mg per day. Maybe 200mg/day.

 

[Cataceous]

It looks like you went from 140mg/week (injections) to 100mg/week cream.
...

Here's how to figure it:

Injections: 140 mg/week T cyp * 70% T/T cyp = 98 mg T/week
Transdermal: 700 mg T/week * absorption_factor = ?

The absorption factor for scrotal delivery can range from 10% to 60%. Therefore:

Transdermal: 700 mg T/week * (10%-60%) = 70-420 mg T/week

It could be a dose reduction if he absorbs poorly, otherwise it's a dose increase.

 

[S1W]

Here's how to figure it:

Injections: 140 mg/week T cyp * 70% T/T cyp = 98 mg T/week
Transdermal: 700 mg T/week * absorption_factor = ?

The absorption factor for scrotal delivery can range from 10% to 60%. Therefore:

Transdermal: 700 mg T/week * (10%-60%) = 70-420 mg T/week

It could be a dose reduction if he absorbs poorly, otherwise it's a dose increase.

Always appreciate your input and approach to things - we learn a lot from you.

I guess I didn’t consider absorption variables, but I do have a bit of personal experience with cream and injections. For me, it would most certainly be a substantial dosage reduction.

 

[fifty]

I see perfectly what the problem is, there are many ways to deal with high estrogen. I wonder do you need to have FT levels in the high 20's, maybe you can get away with less and considering FT converts to estrogen, less of one leads to a decrease of the other.

The T-creams don't work for everyone.

I have yet to hear of anyone who switched to cream and was like "wow this is better". Maybe for the first week...

 

[Vince Carter]

We haven't had any reported absoprtion problems with scrotal delivery like we do when applied to other body parts. That's important.

No mention of SHBG no detailed E2 testing, is probably the wrong test.

High Estrogen is going to blunt just about everything good from TRT. 40-55 approaching 70 on just 20mg/D is a real problem. In myself penile sens is a clear indicator of needing to look at Estrogen very closely as being elevated.

 

[antelopers]

I have yet to hear of anyone who switched to cream and was like "wow this is better". Maybe for the first week...

That was my experience. A very strong first week, and then no real difference from injections except more oily skin and anxiety which is very abnormal for me. Switched back to injections this week.

 

[Cataceous]

That was my experience. A very strong first week, and then no real difference from injections except more oily skin and anxiety which is very abnormal for me. Switched back to injections this week.

That's why a number of guys find a hybrid approach is the best: You stick with injections, but once every week or two you apply a modest dose of testosterone cream to the scrotum. The boost from this seems to last for many days. It's not ideal if you want to be at the top of your game all the time, but it's better than nothing.

 

[antelopers]

That's why a number of guys find a hybrid approach is the best: You stick with injections, but once every week or two you apply a modest dose of testosterone cream to the scrotum. The boost from this seems to last for many days. It's not ideal if you want to be at the top of your game all the time, but it's better than nothing.

I tried this before trying cream solo. Same result unfortunately.
I don't think I do well with any of my numbers supraphysiological for long. DHT, E2, etc. I felt great 2 days after skipping the cream, before I had taken any other T. I also feel better when I skip my shots on a 2x weekly protocol.
The fact that I feel good skipping doses tells me that maybe I don't do well at the upper ends of the range with things like e2 despite an shbg of 35. I'm going to approach with daily injections, just debating a starting dose of anywhere from 12 to 20mg.

 

[Cataceous]

I tried this before trying cream solo. Same result unfortunately.

You get the initial boost, but not if you repeat in a week or two? So your repeat interval is impractically long?

 

[antelopers]

You get the initial boost, but not if you repeat in a week or two? So your repeat interval is impractically long?

Edited my above post to add some info. When I add the cream, same as when I increase a dose of shots or add HCG, I feel great for 3 to 7 days and then the results fade to zero. If I try the cream once or twice a week with shots I still don't feel the same benefits after week 1.

 

[[email protected]]

Gents thanks for all of your feedback. I really appreciate it

 

[_CTI_]

I have yet to hear of anyone who switched to cream and was like "wow this is better". Maybe for the first week...

I wanted to chime in on this and say that I'm finding scrotal application of the cream to be VASTLY superior to any protocol I've been on before. I don't even think about my E2 or what minor adjustment I need to make to feel good. I just put it on and go. And this is going on eight months. Wish I would've found it sooner.

 

[_CTI_]

I've tried low does AI and E2 levels we impossible to manage. I've also read quite a bit of negatives on use of AI's. Apparently even Crisler changed his stance on use of AI's just before his death. With regard to lowering injection dose I'm concerned about a further reduction in DHT which I've read is the primary driver of All Things Male.

I was right where you were some months ago. I switched over to scrotal application of T cream and have loved it. I'm mystified as to why this isn't the first line approach to TRT. I don't worry about E2. Don't need to take HCG, I'm not taking labs every month trying to get things just right. It's pretty freeing.

 

[JimboTRT]

I was right where you were some months ago. I switched over to scrotal application of T cream and have loved it. I'm mystified as to why this isn't the first line approach to TRT. I don't worry about E2. Don't need to take HCG, I'm not taking labs every month trying to get things just right. It's pretty freeing.

Sounds great _CTI_. How's your strength, energy and libido compared to injections?

 

[_CTI_]

Sounds great _CTI_. How's your strength, energy and libido compared to injections?

I would say its everything I wanted when I started TRT. Consistent and above average strength gains. Morning erections about 98% of the time. Intercourse 4 - 5x week and I usually masturbate on top of that. Random erections and super solid libido. Like im not just hard but fucking horny as well. I had to stop playing a game and go find my girl so we could bang! It's pretty great tbh.