To Wait or Not to Wait - Adding DHEA and hCG to TRT

[mopes]

In my second month of TRT, started with compounded 20% cream and now on test cyp injections, 100mg, twice a week.

Should I wait until I have follow up bloodwork and have fine tuned the dose of test cyp before I add DHEA and hCG into the mix?

I've been tracking DHEA for the last five years and it's continuously sat in the 200-210 range. I have not checked it since starting TRT. Tried taking small doses (5-25 mg) of sublingual micronized DHEA a couple times in the last week and it has an excellent impact on energy and general well being.

Also looking to add hCG to increase the general sense of well being.

Would you guys recommend waiting until I have some follow up labs from the Test Cyp alone before adding to the mix? Given the positive response I'm having from the DHEA I'm inclined to continue but interested in your thoughts as well as seeing how much the Test Cyp raises DHEA levels on it's own.

I also have extensive baseline bloodwork prior to TRT initiation.

 

[ERO]

If taking small doses of DHEA makes you feel noticeably better, then I would recommend you continue use it. Test does not raise DHEA on its own - that is why it is common for TRT doctors to have their guys suppliment DHEA either as a topical or in pills/capsules.

 

[Vince Carter]

I agree with ERO I've not experienced of read of others where TCyp or their Total T has influenced upward, they're reading for DHEA. Since you're using it and like it by all means. I'm having a problem with mine right now and like to include DHEA-S in my every other time blood tests.

 

[Vince]

I agree with ERO I've not experienced of read of others where TCyp or their Total T has influenced upward, they're reading for DHEA. Since you're using it and like it by all means. I'm having a problem with mine right now and like to include DHEA-S in my every other time blood tests.

I disagree, T should raise your dhea, that's why you should not supplement with dhea until labs after starting TRT.

 

[mopes]

I disagree, T should raise your dhea, that's why you should not supplement with dhea until labs after starting TRT.

That was my understanding as well, which is why I was/am inclined to wait on continuing supplementation...

 

[ERO]

DHEA is 'upstream' in the hormonal pathways from Testosterone so I cannot see a way that Testosterone could increase DHEA, but I could very well be wrong. This would be a good topic for Dr. Saya to weigh in on next time he visits the forum.

 

[mopes]

Can't speak to anyone else but I know Dr. Thierry Hertoghe is very clear that increasing testosterone will increase DHEA. I'll try to snap a picture of the page where he discusses it.

 

[Vince Carter]

DHEA is 'upstream' in the hormonal pathways from Testosterone so I cannot see a way that Testosterone could increase DHEA, but I could very well be wrong. This would be a good topic for Dr. Saya to weigh in on next time he visits the forum.

Exactly/Agreed. Most men present as low DHEA with or without TRT.

 

[Gene Devine]

DHEA and Pregnenolone are NOT androgenic and DO NOT increase serum testosterone in men; but in some women it can.

Both are pro-hormones and are the foundation and support for all three metabolic pathways; they both are the mother of all our hormones.

Both decline as we age and are best supplemented to increase serum levels as there are many health benefits.

DHEA can be estrogenic so best to take 25 mg twice daily.

 

[mopes]

Yes, I agree that dhea will not/should not increase testosterone levels. But will increased testosterone levels as a result of TRT increase DHEA and thus negate, or decrease, the dose needed to bring DHEA back into the high end of range?

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

I disagree, T should raise your dhea, that's why you should not supplement with dhea until labs after starting TRT.

Dr. Saya started me on DHEA/Preg compounded capsules at the same time I started my TCyp protocol. My pre-TRT lab work indicated very low DHEA-S, and the doctor thought it was important to get my levels up into the optimal range.

 

[ERO]

No, the hormonal pathway works in one direction only. DHEA is upstream from Testosterone. Being upstream means that the hormonal path flows in one direction - like a stream or a river E.G., adding Testosterone, cannot raise DHEA.

 

[Gene Devine]

Dr Crisler and many other TRT Docs like to supplement with Pregnenolone and DHEA both to back-fill the pathways.

When we put exogenous testosterone in down stream like we do the production line [pathway] slows down manufacturing upstream and both Pregnenolone and DHEA can be compromised so it's best to supplement.

Also, while HCG can and does stimulate the production of Pregnenolone via the activation of the P450 scc it's always best to supplement for the extra insurance it provides.

 

[Gene Devine]

No, the hormonal pathway works in one direction only. DHEA is upstream from Testosterone. Being upstream means that the hormonal path flows in one direction - like a stream or a river E.G., adding Testosterone, cannot raise DHEA.
View attachment 1867

This chart is very very basic; there's a lot more going on between DHEA before it becomes Testosterone.

 

[ERO]

Agreed. I just wanted to show the basic directional pathways.

 

[mopes]

Not saying this is accurate but interesting nonetheless.

 

[JPB]

It would seem that exogenous T would have the potential to raise endogenous DHEA, since less DHEA would now be getting converted to T (because of HPTA shutdown). Best bet = just get it tested and/or see how you feel with supplementing it

 

[mopes]

How about hCG, would you guys recommend getting the test cyp dose dialed before adding that in low dose?

 

[joshmaximus]

Dr Crisler and many other TRT Docs like to supplement with Pregnenolone and DHEA both to back-fill the pathways.

When we put exogenous testosterone in down stream like we do the production line [pathway] slows down manufacturing upstream and both Pregnenolone and DHEA can be compromised so it's best to supplement.

Also, while HCG can and does stimulate the production of Pregnenolone via the activation of the P450 scc it's always best to supplement for the extra insurance it provides.

I take hcg is it still good to supplement with pregnalone? Yes am seeing!

 

[BigBamBoo]

How about hCG, would you guys recommend getting the test cyp dose dialed before adding that in low dose?

Are you primary or secondary?

I would do one thing at a time and then test or see how you feel.

If you are secondary, there seems to be some men who have elevated E2 issues with HCG....I am one of them.

I would start low and work up if you choose to try it.