Testosterone plus Clomid Combination

[Bigtexstud]

New to this site & finding it very helpful. I'm 57yo very fit athletic male with T level less than 300. My doc started me on Test injections 1cc per week about 120 days ago. Initial results were amazing. Very high libido, increased strength & muscle mass. Noticed the side effect of testicles shrinking and mentioned to my doctor. He suggested taking 20mg Clomid twice a week for keeping my testicles producing.
I can't find any information about HRT and Clomid taken together. Has anyone heard of this or experienced it?
Thanks

 

[Gene Devine]

No, not Clomid. You're already HPTA suppressed.

You need HCG to keep your testes alive.

Much on the site to learn about HCG...but you don't need Clomid when on TRT.

 

[Vince]

Bigtexs here's a good place to start HCG plus TRT to Prevent / Reverse Testicular Shrinkage and Decreased Fertility

 

[JNole]

Big Tex - I began TRT just about a year ago and my doc (very knowledgable and experienced, has written books on HRT) also prescribed Test Cyp together with 51 mg of Clomid M-W-F, Clomid being for testicular atrophy. After prescribing this to me, I began doing a lot of research on the subject during which I found this excellent forum. I, too, have been confused because I have not been able to find much info that supports this protocol. Everyone else adheres to HCG for testicular atrophy. I understand the reasons why many say this does not work because of the physiological mechanics of what exogenous testosterone does and how this would counteract what Clomid does, but I do know Clomid IS WORKING to keep my testicles from shrinking. Clomid can present side effects in some people, but I cannot say I have experienced any of these side effects.

 

[Gene Devine]

It's simple; Exogenous testosterone via the negative feedback look shuts down HPTA; meaning that your Hypothalamus, Pituitary and Testicles don't work anymore...that normal.

Clomid, in simple terms, stimulates the Pituitary to produce more LH but it can't because of the HPTA suppression.

In HRT it's either one of the other; Testosterone Replacement or Clomid Supplementation.

If you are on TRT and you want to keep your Testes alive you need HCG not Clomid.

So much on this here on the site to learn it's not even funny; but why do you think 99.9% on here use HCG and NOT Clomid on TRT???

Because their Doctors know the difference.

 

[JNole]

I wonder then, why does it work?

 

[Gene Devine]

I wonder then, why does it work?

What was you LH lab on last blood work?

Let me say it again, and this isn't me; it's either TRT and HCG as a therapy or Clomid as therapy.

Combined combined with Testosterone is counter intuitive from a physiological perspective.

Think about it; Testosterone supplementation gets you to desired serum level. HCG keeps your testes alive as it's an LH analog. The two combined is what is prescribed for TRT in Physicians in the know.

If a man doesn't want Testosterone and wants his own Testes to do the work he can take Clomid alone as is signals the Pituitary to produce more LH which makes the testes produce more endogenous Testosterone.

Both can be effective treatment but can't be combined.

If you are supplementing Testosterone there is no need for Clomid as HPTA is now suppressed...it's a waste.

If you want to keep your testes alive while you are shut down you simply need HCG.

Do your research and you will see for yourself.

 

[Jasen Bruce]

If a man is taking any form of supplemental testosterone (TRT), then his pituitary will go through a process called negative feedback resulting in the shutting down of LH. As most know, LH is a gonadotropin which is released from the pituitary with the mission to stimulate testosterone production within the testes. LH stimulation also helps maintain testicular size. Clomid is a SERM taken to stimulate the pituitary to create and release more LH when someone is suspected of having secondary hypogonadism, which is defined by a failure or deficiency in LH that results in low testosterone. Clomid will not work if there is any outside source of testosterone present in the body. The negative feedback initiated by having testosterone present will override any stimulation that clomid can provide.

Clomid cannot and will not increase LH or increase testicular size while on TRT. The only way to bypass the negative feedback within the pituitary and increase testicular suze while on TRT is by taking HCG, which is a gonadotropin similar to LH. HCG will hit the same receptors in the testes and help maintain testicular function and size.

 

[Jasen Bruce]

Vince provided a good link about which leads to a thread discussing using HCG to preserve fertility and testicle size while on TRT

 

[Benning78]

Clomid will work as well. Its clogs receptors in hypothalamus which respond to estrogen and limit Gnrh if enough estrogen is binding. If those receptors are blocked even on trt GnRh will still be reliesed and stimulate LH and FSH. If you do not think so trt it for your self.It has brought my testicles back to pre trt size.I only speak facts here and personal experience. Think about it.

 

[Benning78]

I hope you are not a doctor, because of you are you need to spend another semester studying just Clomid. Estrogen will still exists during trt. So Clomid will act on estrogen receptors in the brain and block them. Once body senses this it will still stimulate GnRh. Clomid can be used for short periods with trt to bring testicles size up and luck start negative feed back for a bit.

 

[Benning78]

Don't listen to those who do not know What they are talking about. Clomid will still help with testicle size. It works for me as well. I take it during trt on and off.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I hope you are not a doctor, because of you are you need to spend another semester studying just Clomid. Estrogen will still exists during trt. So Clomid will act on estrogen receptors in the brain and block them. Once body senses this it will still stimulate GnRh. Clomid can be used for short periods with trt to bring testicles size up and luck start negative feed back for a bit.

Reel back your attitude, please. There is no reason for personal invective. You may disagree, but your tone in the opening of this post is not appropriate. Respect, for all members is a must. Thank you.

 

[Gene Devine]

Don't listen to those who do not know What they are talking about. Clomid will still help with testicle size. It works for me as well. I take it during trt on and off.

Jasen Bruce is the founder and owner of Defy Medical; one of the most respected TRT and medical clinics in the country. He has spoken and written countless papers on anti aging medicine as well; he's highly regarded as one of the top authorities in TRT for men.

He has also spent many years in the pharmaceutical industry and has some ownership in a compounding pharmacy.

He knows what he speaks better then most who "think" they what what they speak.

He's earned his trust...

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

A simple check of LH and FSH for a male on TRT + Clomid (TRT at adequate dosing of at least a few months to induce HPTA suppression) answers this question. I've seen it countless times for men coming to me from a different doc (or self-medicating) on TRT + clomid...LH and FSH darn near zero (sometimes FSH "resists" the TRT suppression a little better, but not often when TRT is dosed at or above 100mg weekly).

 

[Benning78]

Hm..

Reel back your attitude, please. There is no reason for personal invective. You may disagree, but your tone in the opening of this post is not appropriate. Respect, for all members is a must. Thank you.

Bad attitude?! Must be assuming that.... Its facts and truth that I spoke .... If that hurts people's feelings than estrogen blockers are an option.

 

[Gene Devine]

Bad attitude?! Must be assuming that.... Its facts and truth that I spoke .... If that hurts people's feelings than estrogen blockers are an option.

Facts and truth: Besides what Dr. Saya posted above please provide any clinical research, papers or documents that support what your claim. That would go a long way to prove what you say.

 

[Weasel]

Bad attitude?! Must be assuming that.... Its facts and truth that I spoke .... If that hurts people's feelings than estrogen blockers are an option.

Post up your blood work while on TRT+clomid. I'd be very interested to see it.

Maybe you're an abnormality.

 

[johndoesmith]

Now I am not denying that clomid has no affect on LH in the presence of exogenous testosterone, but I don't understand how clomid can raise endogenous levels to 900 or more, and the HPTA is still not shut down. How is that endogenous 900 level from clomid different from the exogenous 900 level?

As in, how does the body "sense" exogenous testosterone and clomid simply won't work?

 

[GeauxBears]

Now I am not denying that clomid has no affect on LH in the presence of exogenous testosterone, but I don't understand how clomid can raise endogenous levels to 900 or more, and the HPTA is still not shut down. How is that endogenous 900 level from clomid different from the exogenous 900 level?

As in, how does the body "sense" exogenous testosterone and clomid simply won't work?

Clomid blocks E2 at the hypothalamus/pituitary level. The brain goes "holy crap, I have no E2, that means I have no T", and so it secretes LH/FSH to stimulate the testicles to produce more T. As long as a man isn't primary and he creating ample LH/FSH from the clomid stimulation, his T (and resulting E2) will rise. BUT the brain still doesn't "see" the E2 because the clomid continues to block it, so the body keeps stimulating with LH/FSH.

If you inject exogenous T, the brain goes "ok, we have plenty of T, no need to make our own" and shuts down LH/FSH, thus stopping the testicles from producing. Injected HCG is analogous to LH, so it stimuates the testicles a bit just to keep them alive and at their full size.