Taking charge of my own testosterone plus HCG injections

[Megamil]

So after long last ... I think I ended up at the right place: here. Just discovered this site and seems to be the perfect place for me. So ... with no further adieu. I'm 55 and have been on TRT for almost 3 1/2 yrs now. It was discovered after I had knee replacement surgery and the docs thought I was anemic and were going to run a blood test. I asked them to test for my T level since they were doing blood work anyway. He asked why and I told him I'd been seeing ads on TV for "Low T" and thought I met those symptoms. The doc already knew my history (not a bullshitter) so he agreed. My T level came back at 130. Was kinda funny actually, the doc thought I already knew but I had no effing clue at all about T and T Levels. So I asked him ... is that good or bad ? He just looked at me. So I said ... what's it supposed to be ? And he said between 300 and 500. I gulped and said, so I am 1/3 of normal for my age ? He looked at me and said, yes. You obviously have an issue so once your knee gets healed up ... you need to talk to your PCP about it ...

So a few months down the road, I did. Tried the patches, sprays, gels. Lots of blood work. Nothing seemed to get my T level up. Went to injections. Once a month. Nope. Increase dosage. Nope. Twice a month. Better. Increase dosages. OK, seems about right. So ... lots of trial and error. Eventually got it so my T level was between 400 and 500 regularly.

The trial period with adjustments took a yr, if you can imagine that. Eventually got to a good state and felt the best I've felt in yrs. But after awhile that began to fade. Began to notice a change in my balls. Didn't recover as fast after sex. Balls getting smaller. Less and less semen. So talked to my PCP ... he practically laughed in my face .... you're on TRT and complaining about your balls getting smaller !!! HAHAHA. ****ing ****. I asked about clomid and NCG ... dude was not going there ... suggested I go to an endocrinologist. So I did ... that dude said ... they got better gels now ... try this one, try that one, he actually gave me a 1 mo sample. Clomid ? NOT A ****ING CHANCE. NCG ... looked like he thought I might punch him or something. Seriously, I think all the docs in this area are OWNED by the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and LAWYERS.

So that's my gripe. As for me and my state, guess its kinda weird. I feel ok, not great, not motivated to kick the world like when you first get your big T rush. No problems with erections or sex life though. Got a much younger girlfriend and do the deed about once a week; usually 2x. I've always had a strong sex drive and even enjoyed porn when my T level was 130. But the shrunken balls is kinda weird and getting to my head. My balls are 1/2 the size they were before and my ejaculate is 1/3. The old feeling of the build up in your balls and the need for release is ... just gone. Just don't seem right ... guess its getting to my head ... so I ended up here. Looking for help.

What I'd really like to do is get off TRT ... that's what we'd all like to do really. Clomid reset ? Any kind of reset ? If that's not possible, seems like HCG is the best way to get your balls back. If it does, I'm up for that.

As for my current meds, my GF is a nurse so gives me the shots. Every 2 weeks 1 ml of 200 mg/mL T-Cypionate so that would be 400 mg per month. Also taking some supps: dim, dhea ... started taking Sunflower Lecithin, damiana leaves, pygeuem, l-arginine ... anything that would help get my balls back before my girlfriend notices I'm shooting blanks. As for my physical build I'm 5-10 and 195 pounds and in pretty good shape. Lifted some weights as part of my efforts but that's not really my thing. More into hiking, walking, riding bikes, bowling, golf ... I'm not overweight and pretty active.

So yeah, guess in the big picture I'm doing well ... just my ****ing balls are 1/2 the size they've been my entire life and when I cum it feels like there isn't anything there.

Sorry if I spewed too much info ... thinking of talking to online docs .. Defy, etc and seeing if HCG or something might help me. As I said, just ran across this site ... so will be doing some research here ... thanks to all the contributors who have told their stories ... as I just did.

Mega

 

[CoastWatcher]

Your protocol is working against you. Two hundred milligrams of testosterone every two weeks will prevent you from achieving the full benefits of TRT. A doctor who prescribes such an injection schedule really doesn't understand androgen replacement. The half-life of testosterone is such that by the end of the two week cycle you will have metabolized your dose...some days before.

Smaller, more frequent injections are typical. A good starting point is 50mg every 3.5 days. After four weeks one can adjust from there based on subjective response and lab results. HCG can maintain your testicles.

We're glad you are here, I hope you straighten out your protocol.

 

[PAUL-E]

Do you know if your primary or secondary hypogonadism?
As Coast watcher said"A good starting point is 50mg every 3.5 days." I agree but I would also ad 500ui's of HCG 2x a week since its clear that testical size is important to you it can also improve volume.

 

[ERO]

No wonder you want to get off TRT - with the protocol you are on, nobody would feel good. Switch to injecting every 3.5 days as CoastWatcher indicated and you will be on the right track.

 

[Megamil]

Thanks for the replies guys ... PAUL-E ... I had never seen that video before ... holy shit that's exactly what I was looking for. I know this is going to sound bad ... but I've never been a fan of needles. For the longest time, I actually went in to my PHP's office and had a nurse do the shots. Stupid insurance charged me $25 for an office visit. Was originally once a month and then 2x. Had to take time out during they day to get there, etc. Huge PITA. Only recently had the GF start doing them. We have a pretty good sex life so wasn't too comfortable about telling her I was taking shots. But got over that and she's been doing them for about 4 months now.

So anyway, 2x a month is a pain so thought doing them every week or more often would be even worse. Oh, one of the reasons was because they go into the butt muscle ... which I obviously can't do myself and was a large needle. So that video was an eye opener for sure. Much smaller needle, do 2 products at once ... DIDN"T KNOW YOU COULD DO THAT EITHER !!! And then it goes into the shoulder ! So wow, that was cool to see ...

The other thing that was cool was that dosage was the same as what I'm currently taking. 50 mg 2x a week is the same as 200 mg every 2 wks ... just spread out evenly over time. Will have to look into the online telemed doc stuff cause neither of the 2 docs I've seen here will prescribe HCG.

Do have a question on HCG though. Was wondering if I could go on HCG for awhile (like 6 months) and once my balls are back ... go off of it again. Like I said I was probably on TRT for 2 1/2 yrs before the shrinkage started getting noticeable. So I'm thinking get the boys back and then see how it goes without HCG if it lasts a couple of years great and then do another cycle of HCG then. That way I won't be doing it all the time. Does that makes sense ?

Oh I looked in my records and my PCP has it listed as "Testicular hypofunction" I didn't see anything about primary or secondary. Frankly not sure the doc was even interested in determining WHAT was causing my low t ... he was just dealing with the symptoms. What is Primary vs Secondary ? Is one easier to treat than the other ?

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thanks for the replies guys ... PAUL-E ... I had never seen that video before ... holy shit that's exactly what I was looking for. I know this is going to sound bad ... but I've never been a fan of needles. For the longest time, I actually went in to my PHP's office and had a nurse do the shots. Stupid insurance charged me $25 for an office visit. Was originally once a month and then 2x. Had to take time out during they day to get there, etc. Huge PITA. Only recently had the GF start doing them. We have a pretty good sex life so wasn't too comfortable about telling her I was taking shots. But got over that and she's been doing them for about 4 months now.

So anyway, 2x a month is a pain so thought doing them every week or more often would be even worse. Oh, one of the reasons was because they go into the butt muscle ... which I obviously can't do myself and was a large needle. So that video was an eye opener for sure. Much smaller needle, do 2 products at once ... DIDN"T KNOW YOU COULD DO THAT EITHER !!! And then it goes into the shoulder ! So wow, that was cool to see ...

The other thing that was cool was that dosage was the same as what I'm currently taking. 50 mg 2x a week is the same as 200 mg every 2 wks ... just spread out evenly over time. Will have to look into the online telemed doc stuff cause neither of the 2 docs I've seen here will prescribe HCG.

Do have a question on HCG though. Was wondering if I could go on HCG for awhile (like 6 months) and once my balls are back ... go off of it again. Like I said I was probably on TRT for 2 1/2 yrs before the shrinkage started getting noticeable. So I'm thinking get the boys back and then see how it goes without HCG if it lasts a couple of years great and then do another cycle of HCG then. That way I won't be doing it all the time. Does that makes sense ?

Oh I looked in my records and my PCP has it listed as "Testicular hypofunction" I didn't see anything about primary or secondary. Frankly not sure the doc was even interested in determining WHAT was causing my low t ... he was just dealing with the symptoms. What is Primary vs Secondary ? Is one easier to treat than the other ?

Primary hypogonadism indicates the the issue is testicular in origin. Secondary hypogonadism means your issue is with the HPTA axis. What were your original lab values prior to starting TRT? LH and FSH?

You deserve better medical care than you have received.

 

[PAUL-E]

Primary hypogonadism indicates the the issue is testicular in origin. Secondary hypogonadism means your issue is with the HPTA axis. What were your original lab values prior to starting TRT? LH and FSH?

You deserve better medical care than you have received.

I agree, make sure you research into where to inject on the shoulder and also make sure to get the insulin syringes check the difference out here https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7046-1cc-syringe and for online suppliers here https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?7352-Needle&p=42631#post42631

I have a feeling once you start hcg you wont want to stop but if you do your balls will shrink again.

 

[Megamil]

Guess this thread is due for an update. To start I want to thank PAUL-E and Nelson ... the vid that was posted earlier was exactly what I was looking for and pushed me over the edge ... to signing up. And thanks to Nelson as I have referenced that vid several times as I recently started my injections.

So it took awhile to signup and get going ... I went with Defy Medical and Dr. Saya. I must say that they are very professional and it took awhile to get all the medical history and blood work cleared away. I received my supplies and started my new program a little over a week ago. Doing the TRT + HCG program with twice a week injections. Dr Saya started me with 140 mg/wk of T to start which was based on my prior program/dosage and blood work. HCG is at 400 iu per injection so would be 800 iu per week. I have decided on a Monday evening, Friday morning schedule.

So I just gave myself my 4th injection (did Sat am, Mon pm, Fr am the first week ... I was late/overdue on the first injection as I was trying to coordinate quitting the program from my pcp and starting the new one). So guess I'm starting the second week ... impressions so far ???

Well, as for well being, confidence, etc ... about the same as before as this was similar to my prior trt program. Guess I'd have to say I feel a little better than before and shouldn't have the ups/downs because I'm injecting more frequently. As for the testicles ... I started noticing a change about 5-6 days in. Hard to describe ... but will try. Before and the reason I wanted to do this program is primarily my balls ... they had gotten smaller over time and kinda knotted up, tight, and many times felt warm and ... all guys need time to recover after sex and that time had gotten longer and longer. Just didn't feel right. So the change kinda felt like ... say you had a cramp in your muscles, just all tight and knotted up ... and then you stretched and got some fluids and got it loosened up:relief !!! Same sorta thing for my testicles ... just felt like the tightening up was gone and they relaxed back. So nice start with that ! Had sex a couple of times with my GF over the weekend and didn't notice a huge difference but what change their was, was positive ... again ... a notch back to normal. And the recovery felt different too ... better, more normal.

Guess I could summarize as ... not a huge difference so far ... small changes ... all for the better.

The biggest adjustment has been doing the injections myself. For most of my prior T program, I had been going into my pcp and having the nurse do my injections. Back when I made my original post I had a GF who was a nurse who did them for me ... that's done and I have a new GF now. Anyway, I've never injected myself with anything ... so that was a major hurdle. But got over it ... getting easier every time, tonight was the easiest so far ... I'm assuming over time ... it becomes routine ... but must say at the beginning was a big deal for me. Again thanks to Nelson and the vid showing it done. Dr Crisler also has a vid which helps too ... don't have enough posts here to provide a link.

So ... glad I started down this path ... things seem to be going well so far !!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

"Guess I could summarize as ... not a huge difference so far ... small changes ... all for the better.

The biggest adjustment has been doing the injections myself. For most of my prior T program, I had been going into my pcp and having the nurse do my injections. Back when I made my original post I had a GF who was a nurse who did them for me ... that's done and I have a new GF now. Anyway, I've never injected myself with anything ... so that was a major hurdle. But got over it ... getting easier every time, tonight was the easiest so far ... I'm assuming over time ... it becomes routine ... but must say at the beginning was a big deal for me. Again thanks to Nelson and the vid showing it done. Dr Crisler also has a vid which helps too ... don't have enough posts here to provide a link.

So ... glad I started down this path ... things seem to be going well so far !!"




Slowly but surely!

I am glad the video helped. It really gets easier and becomes a habit after a while. The small needle makes a big difference!

Glad you joined us and thanks for the update.

Nelson

 

[johndoesmith]

Guess this thread is due for an update. To start I want to thank PAUL-E and Nelson ... the vid that was posted earlier was exactly what I was looking for and pushed me over the edge ... to signing up. And thanks to Nelson as I have referenced that vid several times as I recently started my injections.

So it took awhile to signup and get going ... I went with Defy Medical and Dr. Saya. I must say that they are very professional and it took awhile to get all the medical history and blood work cleared away. I received my supplies and started my new program a little over a week ago. Doing the TRT + HCG program with twice a week injections. Dr Saya started me with 140 mg/wk of T to start which was based on my prior program/dosage and blood work. HCG is at 400 iu per injection so would be 800 iu per week. I have decided on a Monday evening, Friday morning schedule.

So I just gave myself my 4th injection (did Sat am, Mon pm, Fr am the first week ... I was late/overdue on the first injection as I was trying to coordinate quitting the program from my pcp and starting the new one). So guess I'm starting the second week ... impressions so far ???

Well, as for well being, confidence, etc ... about the same as before as this was similar to my prior trt program. Guess I'd have to say I feel a little better than before and shouldn't have the ups/downs because I'm injecting more frequently. As for the testicles ... I started noticing a change about 5-6 days in. Hard to describe ... but will try. Before and the reason I wanted to do this program is primarily my balls ... they had gotten smaller over time and kinda knotted up, tight, and many times felt warm and ... all guys need time to recover after sex and that time had gotten longer and longer. Just didn't feel right. So the change kinda felt like ... say you had a cramp in your muscles, just all tight and knotted up ... and then you stretched and got some fluids and got it loosened up:relief !!! Same sorta thing for my testicles ... just felt like the tightening up was gone and they relaxed back. So nice start with that ! Had sex a couple of times with my GF over the weekend and didn't notice a huge difference but what change their was, was positive ... again ... a notch back to normal. And the recovery felt different too ... better, more normal.

Guess I could summarize as ... not a huge difference so far ... small changes ... all for the better.

The biggest adjustment has been doing the injections myself. For most of my prior T program, I had been going into my pcp and having the nurse do my injections. Back when I made my original post I had a GF who was a nurse who did them for me ... that's done and I have a new GF now. Anyway, I've never injected myself with anything ... so that was a major hurdle. But got over it ... getting easier every time, tonight was the easiest so far ... I'm assuming over time ... it becomes routine ... but must say at the beginning was a big deal for me. Again thanks to Nelson and the vid showing it done. Dr Crisler also has a vid which helps too ... don't have enough posts here to provide a link.

So ... glad I started down this path ... things seem to be going well so far !!

Wow, that's amazing.

You had such poor treatment before, and now you're on a reasonable protocol, very similar to mine actually. I'm also a patient of defy and love them as well.

I think you need to give it more time! 2 weeks is nothing for TRT, especially after how long you were on a poor protocol for.

You're right about injections becoming easier, I am not afraid of needles at all, not exactly a fan, but I didn't have much trouble in the beginning and now I don't have any at all. It's routine and pretty easy.

The biggest difference is insulin syringes! 27g 1/2 inch 1/2cc so you can accurately measure the small doses. Plus with no dead space you don't waste oil!

You will be doing a lot better with Dr saya. Do you happen to have any labs from before you can post? It will be interesting how your labs looked, and how they will change over time. I assume you will update this.

 

[Camp_anawana]

Need to do shots weekly or twice weekly for better results.

 

[Megamil]

Guess I will do another follow up. Still struggling with the injections a bit ... getting a little more comfortable doing it but have some questions/issues. First ... I seem to be having a problem with air bubbles ... been trying to get them out of the syringe and trying to be careful but just can't seem to get it right. Particularly when I switch between the two. I draw the T first and then switch needle heads (to avoid comtamination) and then draw the HCG ... seems like there is always an air pocket between the two. And sometimes air pockets elsewhere ... I've been injecting it anyway since its below the skin and not into into a artery or muscle ... seems like bad things are unlikely to happen. Is this wrong ?

Guess I'm asking because I gave myself an injection yesterday according to my timetable and this morning more than 24 hrs afterwards ... the area where I injected has started to hurt. Didn't hurt yesterday though, which is weird. As for the injections themselves I've been doing it on the belly area ... what Dr. Crisler calls the "love handle" area in the vid at defy (... defymedical.com/video-education/371). I go in at an angle. I tried going in at 90% and going into the ab wall like at the beginning of the vid and like today ... for a day or so it hurt at the injection point. So didn't like that too much.

Anyway, while many of the injections seem to go ok ... like maybe 1 out of 5 will hurt at the injection point for 1-2 days afterwards. Just wondering if I'm doing it right or whether the air bubbles are causing an issue or what.

Thanks in advance ...

 

[Vince Carter]

For these type injections, SQ or IM the air tiny air bubble is of no concern. Also, there can be some post inj pain, make sure to rub that spot well when you pull the needle out. You'll also find that you like certain injection sites and don't like others. I never liked Cyp in the belly fat, always burned and itched, but in the upper/outer thigh it's perfect for me. Same 29g 1/2" syringe.

 

[Camp_anawana]

Why does doc only give me 22 gage needles? Cant I get smaller needles?

 

[Megamil]

Not sure Camp ... what Doc are you using ? I'm using Dr Saya and they gave me 2 sets of needles ... 20 gauge to pull from the bottle into the syringe and 25 gauge to do the injection. So each injection uses 3 needles 1) a 20 to pull the T 2) a different 20 to pull the HCG and then 3) a 25 to inject.

 

[Vince Carter]

Of course you can use any syringe, we all just about universally use the 29g 1/2" syringe. No reason to use multi gauge syringes.

 

[Camp_anawana]

I have tons of needles and syringes, but they only give me 22 or 23 gage. Kinda painful, but im concerned about scar tissue building up like was mentioned here on the forums. Do I have to have a prescription to get needles? CVS says I need one. Can't I just order them online without a prescription?

 

[Megamil]

hi camp ... I'm a newbie too ... only been doing this a few weeks and I had questions about needles too. So I did some research ... availability of needles is regulated on a state by state basis ... so it depends on where you live. I know for sure that in my state you must have a prescription to get needles ... I think that "most" but not all states are like that but it varies. I don't think you can order them online and get them delivered ... but I could be wrong.

 

[Megamil]

Thinking about what Vince said ... when my current 3 month supply runs out ... maybe I should get 29 gauge needles instead of 25 to inject ... but I've got awhile to decide ...

 

[Camp_anawana]

I live in Oklahoma and they regulate the usage of needles. Because of crackheads and heroine addicts. I hate them.