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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
T Propionate protocol
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<blockquote data-quote="Jerajera" data-source="post: 234509" data-attributes="member: 40995"><p>Perhaps an interesting data point here, although only n of 1 as well.</p><p></p><p>Before I got on TRT my DHEA-S was 200 (forget the units). After I got on TRT, it dropped very quickly (very next blood test 8 weeks later) to 80 and stayed there consistently over 5-6 blood tests over the last 2 years.</p><p></p><p>I briefly tried the compounded scrotal cream. I bailed mostly because even on just 100mg/day (1 click AM + 1 click PM), my DHT levels at trough came back at 360ng/dL, around 6 times the range. I didn't feel comfortable running that long term.</p><p>As a parenthesis one thing I'd still like to try is applying the cream to different parts of my body instead of the scrotum.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, for a brief period of time after I dropped my dose from 200mg/day to 100mg/day, I felt absolutely amazing. Incredibly driven to do things, but purely out of pleasure and enjoyment for the feeling of getting better. I've never felt that in my life. Unfortunately it turned out not to be sustainable or at least maybe I just didn't give it enough time, but my theory is that it had more to do with the sudden drop in levels and temporary contextual neurotransmitter activity, than a specific maintainable ratio of hormones. My sleep was also the best it's ever been in my entire life and despite having incredible libido and erections, I had no cravings. Essentially it felt as if my baseline Dopamine levels were a lot higher than usual.</p><p></p><p>However, what was interesting on the 100mg/day of the cream, is that my DHEA-S levels came back up to 190, or 95% of my baseline pre-TRT levels, after 2 years stuck at 80.</p><p>My TSH also came down to ~1 from my typical 2.5-3.</p><p></p><p>My theory is that HPTA suppression is not a binary thing, and that short esters probably lead to a lot less suppression than longer ones, and therefore less suppression of neurosteroids such as Preg, DHEA and Progesterone.</p><p></p><p>I could be wrong, but I will definitely be testing DHEA-S and Progesterone on this Prop protocol. I also want to test LH and FSH, as ridiculous as it sounds.</p><p>There is a study out there where they gave participants 50mg, 100mg or 300mg of Test Enenthate, and the ones who were only taking 50mg had their LH and FSH shut down by only 50%.</p><p></p><p>There you go: <a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2104626/" target="_blank">Effects of chronic testosterone administration in normal men: safety and efficacy of high dosage testosterone and parallel dose-dependent suppression of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sperm production - PubMed</a></p><p></p><p>"<em>At 50 mg of T enanthate per week, the LH level was 65% and the FSH level was 62% of control values; at 100 mg/week, the levels were at 32% and 34% of control values, respectively. T enanthate also contributed to a significant dose-dependent suppression of both sperm counts and concentrations. At 50 mg/week, the sperm count was 36% of control values; at 100 mg/week, it was 0.8% of control values. T enanthate at a dose of 300 mg/week was no more effective than 100 mg/week</em>"</p><p></p><p>Enanthate is not a short ester, but this is just evidence that shutdown is not a binary thing</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jerajera, post: 234509, member: 40995"] Perhaps an interesting data point here, although only n of 1 as well. Before I got on TRT my DHEA-S was 200 (forget the units). After I got on TRT, it dropped very quickly (very next blood test 8 weeks later) to 80 and stayed there consistently over 5-6 blood tests over the last 2 years. I briefly tried the compounded scrotal cream. I bailed mostly because even on just 100mg/day (1 click AM + 1 click PM), my DHT levels at trough came back at 360ng/dL, around 6 times the range. I didn't feel comfortable running that long term. As a parenthesis one thing I'd still like to try is applying the cream to different parts of my body instead of the scrotum. Anyway, for a brief period of time after I dropped my dose from 200mg/day to 100mg/day, I felt absolutely amazing. Incredibly driven to do things, but purely out of pleasure and enjoyment for the feeling of getting better. I've never felt that in my life. Unfortunately it turned out not to be sustainable or at least maybe I just didn't give it enough time, but my theory is that it had more to do with the sudden drop in levels and temporary contextual neurotransmitter activity, than a specific maintainable ratio of hormones. My sleep was also the best it's ever been in my entire life and despite having incredible libido and erections, I had no cravings. Essentially it felt as if my baseline Dopamine levels were a lot higher than usual. However, what was interesting on the 100mg/day of the cream, is that my DHEA-S levels came back up to 190, or 95% of my baseline pre-TRT levels, after 2 years stuck at 80. My TSH also came down to ~1 from my typical 2.5-3. My theory is that HPTA suppression is not a binary thing, and that short esters probably lead to a lot less suppression than longer ones, and therefore less suppression of neurosteroids such as Preg, DHEA and Progesterone. I could be wrong, but I will definitely be testing DHEA-S and Progesterone on this Prop protocol. I also want to test LH and FSH, as ridiculous as it sounds. There is a study out there where they gave participants 50mg, 100mg or 300mg of Test Enenthate, and the ones who were only taking 50mg had their LH and FSH shut down by only 50%. There you go: [URL='https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2104626/']Effects of chronic testosterone administration in normal men: safety and efficacy of high dosage testosterone and parallel dose-dependent suppression of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sperm production - PubMed[/URL] "[I]At 50 mg of T enanthate per week, the LH level was 65% and the FSH level was 62% of control values; at 100 mg/week, the levels were at 32% and 34% of control values, respectively. T enanthate also contributed to a significant dose-dependent suppression of both sperm counts and concentrations. At 50 mg/week, the sperm count was 36% of control values; at 100 mg/week, it was 0.8% of control values. T enanthate at a dose of 300 mg/week was no more effective than 100 mg/week[/I]" Enanthate is not a short ester, but this is just evidence that shutdown is not a binary thing [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
T Propionate protocol
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