T Cream Question

[David2311]

I’ve been on cream for a little over 2 years. I started at 50mg then went to 60mg.

Been on 60mg over the last year with T ranging from 500 and creeping up to 984. Felt fantastic at the higher end of the range. When the 984 result came back my doctor lowered my dose to 50mg. The 984 result was 4 hours after application and I think 24 over the high end of the range. It wasn’t a lot over. Free T was also just over the top end of the range.

Three months after lowering the dose to 50mg I don’t feel as good. I went and had my own test done. Came back at 319. I went a month later for another test and came back at 99. Doctor told me to alternate dose (50mg one day and 62.5mg the next) until I see him in a month and a half. It’s been a month since I started alternating dose and still feel like crap.

I go for labs next week. But here is my question.

Since my T levels dropped so low for a month or more am I essentially starting over and need to wait a few weeks to feel better assuming the new “alternating dose” is enough? It’s not like injections where you might be low for a day or two until your next injection. I’ve been low, really low, for a while.

I feel like my levels got too low on a cellular lever not just a blood level but that’s just a guess. That’s why I’m asking.

sorry for the long read!

 

[S1W]

I’ve been on cream for a little over 2 years. I started at 50mg then went to 60mg.

Been on 60mg over the last year with T ranging from 500 and creeping up to 984. Felt fantastic at the higher end of the range. When the 984 result came back my doctor lowered my dose to 50mg. The 984 result was 4 hours after application and I think 24 over the high end of the range. It wasn’t a lot over. Free T was also just over the top end of the range.

Three months after lowering the dose to 50mg I don’t feel as good. I went and had my own test done. Came back at 319. I went a month later for another test and came back at 99. Doctor told me to alternate dose (50mg one day and 62.5mg the next) until I see him in a month and a half. It’s been a month since I started alternating dose and still feel like crap.

I go for labs next week. But here is my question.

Since my T levels dropped so low for a month or more am I essentially starting over and need to wait a few weeks to feel better assuming the new “alternating dose” is enough? It’s not like injections where you might be low for a day or two until your next injection. I’ve been low, really low, for a while.

I feel like my levels got too low on a cellular lever not just a blood level but that’s just a guess. That’s why I’m asking.

sorry for the long read!

The big question is - WHY did your doctor lower your already low dose?

If there were side effects such as high hematocrit, etc then that is probably the prudent thing to do. If, however, he simply looked at the number (984 TT) and decided "that's too high", even though you told him you felt fantastic and had no negative side effects, than it is time to find it new doctor.

May be time to find a new doctor anyway since he is telling you to alternate your dose everyday and is having you take very low doses that may be causing you more harm than good... I'd get on that asap.

So first order of business - start looking for a new doctor, preferably one who specializes in TRT, etc. In the meantime, I'd probably just average the two different doses and apply 56mg per day in order to at least maintain some consistency.

Honestly all of those dosages seem too low and I would expect the lower test results. Surprised you got TT to 984. Of course, I'm assuming you understand that timing really matters when doing labs on a cream protocol and that you were consistent with application times and blood draw times in relation to application times. How long after applying cream did you get blood drawn for each of those three results?

I agree with you that cream is different than injections in terms of response time - no, you should not need to wait as long for things to fall into place.

 

[David2311]

Thank you for the reply. All labs were within range except total and free T.
Hematocrit was right at the top of the range but that’s where it’s been for a year. Never over.

The Cream is 12.5mg per click. So 4 clicks gives me 50mg. He told me to alternate 4 clicks one day and 5 clicks the next until I saw him.

I put the cream on at 8am everyday and do all my labs around 12pm. It’s pretty consistent.

If he doesn’t put me back on 60mg I’m finding another doctor.

I’ve read that I should not have blood drawn from the arm I put the cream on that day as it can give me a false high reading. I’m not sure if I did that last time.

The doctor acted very surprised a 10mg drop in dose would crash my numbers. I’m wondering if the lab was a false high.

 

[S1W]

Sounds like you're doing things right regarding labs/application times.

It looks like your doctor has you using a cream that is 50mg/ml, and you are dispensing this cream with a topi-click dispenser. I just don't think that's enough for effective TRT. I know that I would definitely not be feeling good on such a protocol.

For reference, most cream protocols use cream that is 200mg/ml, and many guys start out using 2 clicks/day (100mg). I used 2 clicks AM, 1 click PM, for a total of 150mg/day.

I would strongly encourage you to find a new provider ASAP. Your current protocol is enough to shut down your HPTA, but perhaps not enough to even adequately replace the T. I bet your trough levels into the evening and the morning before your next application are very, very low.

In the mean time, consider applying 1 or 2 of your total clicks to your scrotum for better absorption vs applying it all on your arm.

Or just switch to injections like most of us do

Good luck.

 

[Tman]

Thank you for the reply. All labs were within range except total and free T.
Hematocrit was right at the top of the range but that’s where it’s been for a year. Never over.

The Cream is 12.5mg per click. So 4 clicks gives me 50mg. He told me to alternate 4 clicks one day and 5 clicks the next until I saw him.

I put the cream on at 8am everyday and do all my labs around 12pm. It’s pretty consistent.

If he doesn’t put me back on 60mg I’m finding another doctor.

I’ve read that I should not have blood drawn from the arm I put the cream on that day as it can give me a false high reading. I’m not sure if I did that last time.

The doctor acted very surprised a 10mg drop in dose would crash my numbers. I’m wondering if the lab was a false high.

I did great on 30mg per day, gel to the inner thigh, so don't fall into all the hype. If you felt good, fight to stay at that level, assuming no other sides. Also, if you tested after you first started, your natural input might have been part of the number. Here's the deal...for every "go higher" advice on here, there is a "go lower" For every AI user, there is an anti-AI voice. Find a doctor who listens and works with you and spend your time communicating with him or her.

 

[StepbyStep]

What brand of cream are you using?

Did you switch to a new tube of cream, or are you using cream from the same tube that you got high numbers on? One possibility is that you've gotten a bad batch.

I've also found that application sites, and washing the area immediately before applying is important. Most of the time I shower at night, but just wipe down the area's of application briefly with a damp washcloth before applying the cream. Seems to work just fine.

150mg gets to me 840-1100 TT 3 hours after application. I'm also surprised that you ever saw such high numbers with only 50mg.

 

[Tman]

From everything I've seen on this forum, compounded creams need a much higher dose and are often applied to the scrotum. For me, 60 mg per day of Fortesta, inner thigh, put my t at 1200ish 2 hours after dosing. Back then, I was not checking E and FT, so I don't have those numbers. Also, had my BP up, head fog, and generally felt like crap.