Started my journey. Thank you.

[Reason]

Started my TRT journey yesterday.

After spending most of my life in a rut, hitting a wall every time I tried to get better, I decided to take the plunge. I'm 37 and never thought I'd have to be on hormone replacement therapy at this young age. But here I am and I'm very excited for the future, wish I had done it much much sooner... I know TRT isn't a panacea, but I've lived with low-t symptoms for most of my life and it seems like there's a good chance it will give me a shot.

I am a Defy patient and my starting protocol is:

• T-Cyp 50mg 3x/week (150mg/week)
• HCG 300IU 3x/week (900IU/week)
• No AI for now
• Pregnenolone + DHEA 25mg nightly

Thank you to everyone on this forum for sharing so much information and helping me find out a path forward after a lifetime of struggle with symptoms.

I'll probably update this thread as my treatment continues.

Thanks again.

 

[Vince]

Reason congratulations on starting your new Journey, I hope it goes smooth for you and you get dialed in fast.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Let us know how this unfolds...all the best!

 

[Systemlord]

You've started TRT with realistic expectations that TRT isn't a magic pill, your chances of a successful TRT experience just shot upwards significantly choosing Defy Medical.

I look forward to an update.

 

[Reason]

I know this is early for most positive and potential side-effects, but I thought I'd log these weekly in case it is helpful to others. Just to recap, I'm injecting 50mg T and 300IU HCG MWF. 25mg Pregnenolone/DHEA nightly.

TL;DR: After 1 week, I've felt a clear improvement in overall energy and mood, with most notable improvements in orgasm ease and strength. I don't feel like I'm there yet, but trending upward.

Week 1 update:

I'm feeling a little bit better every day. Mind is clearer. The biggest thing I've noticed is I'm much calmer and more patient. My students and fiancé are feeling it. Whether or not it's the result of treatment or placebo, I don't know, but I'll take it!

When I started, I had debilitating fatigue and that's mostly gone, but not completely (probably a result of poor sleep, see below).

Feeling better in the gym, but I've felt like this before. Not above my baseline, yet.

Libido is improving but still not great. Orgasms are much stronger and come sooner. This was an issue before and I doubt this improvement is placebo-related.

I've gained a couple pounds. No diet changes. Guessing it's the predictable water retention.

Had a bit of testicle soreness but it seems to have subsided.

Sleep has not been good, but this isn't a change from before the treatment. I am waking up in the middle of the night (4-5am) either with nightmares or anxious thoughts. However, I wake up feeling OK.

Questions:

I feel a bit of a warm rush after the 50mg T-cyp shot and then get a bit lightheaded for an hour or so. I've tried SubQ and shallow IM just to see if there's a difference but haven't found any. Is this normal?

Probably a stupid question: I'm very paranoid about injecting air bubbles and have a hard time getting rid of them completely in the syringe. Is this a potential issue?

Wondering if the pregnenolone/DHEA combo might be responsible for many of these changes. Also wondering if the dosage might be too high and interfering with sleep?

Thanks!

 

[pistolero]

That's awesome at one week. I'm on week four and I'm elated I'm really feeling it kick in now. Felt nothing that I couldn't likely attribute to placebo until yesterday. But it's sure good for now.

 

[Systemlord]

Sounds like a normal response to me and similar to my own experience, you might still experience red face flushing which is nothing to worry about. Don't concern yourself with air bubbles, I've never been able to rid syringes of them. Gaining weight is perfectly normal, your body is going through hormonal changes. Be prepared for lots of sweaty nights, eventually it will pass once your body adapts.

Testes should hang again when you get your body dialed in.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

As systemlord stated the tiny air bubbles are of no significance. Now if you inject an entire syringe full of air directly into a vessel...well then it may be a different story.

The DHEA/preg often improve sleep when taken in the evening, though some patients have the opposite reaction. Can try it in the AM, but monitor for grogginess.

 

[Reason]

Thank you, Dr. Saya. I’ll try it in the morning.

 

[blackebob]

I started injecting .5ml of Cyp. I was pretty ignorant on how thick the oil was and how long it took to load. My first two injections went in my deltoids like butter, I mean I touched my finger to the plunger, and I heard it pop since it went down so fast. 95% air went in, and I am still kicking,....

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I started injecting .5ml of Cyp. I was pretty ignorant on how thick the oil was and how long it took to load. My first two injections went in my deltoids like butter, I mean I touched my finger to the plunger, and I heard it pop since it went down so fast. 95% air went in, and I am still kicking,....

Indeed, just don’t do that directly into a vessel!

 

[Reason]

Week 2 Update:

TL;DR: Feeling really good. Noticeable improvements slowed down a bit. Still struggling with staying asleep.


The Good:

Symptom relief from week 1 are still here: better mood, more energy, just happier and generally more "alive." Feeling great the last couple days (start of week 3) even with bad sleep.

Noticeable jump in sexual function/libido/etc. over the past week.

Gym sessions feel good. Haven’t had a bad gym day since beginning treatment. I used to be totally wiped after a heavy deadlift or squat session and I felt OK after going for a 1RM yesterday. However, I feel like there’s room for growth since my baseline has never been that good.

The Bad:

Up 3lbs (+1lbs this week) since beginning treatment. Not worried.

Sleep is still a mess. I can fall asleep OK, but I wake up ~4-5am nightly feeling anxious and generally uncomfortable. Switching the Pregnenolone/DHEA combo to the morning hasn't changed anything yet. I've been dealing with insomnia my whole life so I'll keep adjusting and monitoring, patiently. Despite all of this, my mood and energy level have been great.

By the end of Sunday (last injection is Friday morning), I feel a bit of an energy drop. Nothing major, but I'll keep monitoring.

A bit of restlessness and lightheadedness here and there, specially on injection days.

Questions:

I'm on a MWF schedule injecting in the morning. I've read a few users here inject Monday morning, Wed afternoon, and Friday night for a more even distribution. This confuses me because, naturally, T peaks in the morning, so I assumed morning shots were ideal. Thoughts on this?

Onset of symptom relief/improvements seem to be, generally at the 3-week mark or later. Is it common for folks to feel improvements as fast as I am? I can't chalk all of this up to placebo at this point.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Week 2 Update:

TL;DR: Feeling really good. Noticeable improvements slowed down a bit. Still struggling with staying asleep.


The Good:

Symptom relief from week 1 are still here: better mood, more energy, just happier and generally more "alive." Feeling great the last couple days (start of week 3) even with bad sleep.

Noticeable jump in sexual function/libido/etc. over the past week.

Gym sessions feel good. Haven't had a bad gym day since beginning treatment. I used to be totally wiped after a heavy deadlift or squat session and I felt OK after going for a 1RM yesterday. However, I feel like there's room for growth since my baseline has never been that good.

The Bad:

Up 3lbs (+1lbs this week) since beginning treatment. Not worried.

Sleep is still a mess. I can fall asleep OK, but I wake up ~4-5am nightly feeling anxious and generally uncomfortable. Switching the Pregnenolone/DHEA combo to the morning hasn't changed anything yet. I've been dealing with insomnia my whole life so I'll keep adjusting and monitoring, patiently. Despite all of this, my mood and energy level have been great.

By the end of Sunday (last injection is Friday morning), I feel a bit of an energy drop. Nothing major, but I'll keep monitoring.

A bit of restlessness and lightheadedness here and there, specially on injection days.

Questions:

I'm on a MWF schedule injecting in the morning. I've read a few users here inject Monday morning, Wed afternoon, and Friday night for a more even distribution. This confuses me because, naturally, T peaks in the morning, so I assumed morning shots were ideal. Thoughts on this?

Onset of symptom relief/improvements seem to be, generally at the 3-week mark or later. Is it common for folks to feel improvements as fast as I am? I can't chalk all of this up to placebo at this point.

When I was injecting twice weekly, every 3.5 days, one of the injections was in the late afternoon to approximate an even split. Natural testosterone production is at its highest in the morning, true, but you have no natural, exogenous production. What you inject is what you get. It's perfectly reasonable to adjust your injection schedule to a time of day that suits your needs, accounts for sleep patterns, and so forth.

Every one one of us is different. You may well be realizing the initial benefits of TRT, or it may be a combination of benefits and placebo. Either way, enjoy them.

 

[Reason]

Week 3 Update:

TL;DR: Still feel good, little change from last week. Sleep still an issue.

The Good:

Mood still vastly improved from pre-TRT. That feeling of patience and optimism is the biggest change brought on by the treatment so far, and week after week it has been there for me. It sounds small, but as many of you here know quite well, it is quite a change and a vast improvement over where I was before. Hoping it's not just placebo because I quite like it.

Libido and sexual function are at an all-time (since TRT) high. Nothing I haven't experienced before, but it had been quite a few years since I've felt like this.

The Bad (non-TRT related):

Poor sleep. Waking up in the middle of the night or too early is still an issue. I've been monitoring my snoring (this app is incredible) to check for apnea and it seems like it may be a factor, but I also have poor sleep on quiet nights so I'm gonna try my pulse oximeter this coming week to see if I can detect anything. I've gained 10 or so lbs in the past ~6 months, 4lbs since TRT, and I've found a correlation with weight gain and poor sleep before as higher BMI is a factor for apnea.

Will also look into the glycogen depletion theory circulating here and am considering going back on keto.

Switched to sublingual Pregnenolone nightly and it does help me fall asleep quite nicely without any other aids, but seems to do nothing for the problem above. I had to stop the DHEA because it comes in the same cap as the oral Pregnenolone. Not a fan of changing 2 variables at once, but oh well.

Poor sleep has led to worse recovery from exercise and daytime tiredness. Not as bad as pre-TRT, but I'm not feeling great at all (physically) and it's very frustrating. Lifetime issue, it's time to adapt once again...

Questions:

Week 2 and 3 I started feeling a noticeable dip in mood/energy on Sundays. Melissa asked me to monitor this. I was injecting in the mornings MWF but after reading some posts on here I decided to switch to M (morning), W (early afternoon), F (night) to spread out the doses more evenly. Thoughts? Irrelevant this early in treatment?

Here's a weird one: I don't mind the injections at all, I like routine, and the MWF schedule feels weird. How long before I should consider discussing with my doctor switching to a daily schedule? I'm guessing waiting until the 3-month re-eval, correct?

--
Hopefully these can be useful for newbies like me or folks considering getting treatment.

 

[Esq]

Questions:

I'm on a MWF schedule injecting in the morning. I've read a few users here inject Monday morning, Wed afternoon, and Friday night for a more even distribution. This confuses me because, naturally, T peaks in the morning, so I assumed morning shots were ideal. Thoughts on this?

Onset of symptom relief/improvements seem to be, generally at the 3-week mark or later. Is it common for folks to feel improvements as fast as I am? I can't chalk all of this up to placebo at this point.

Re injection timing, I'm also with Defy and also on a MWF split. Yes, ideally, your injections would be spaced evenly over the 7 day week (thus the commonality of every 3.5 days). That would mean, for 3 injections/week, you would inject every 2 1/3 days, but that's not all that practical. For example, that would mean Monday at 7am, Wednesday at 3pm, and Friday at 11pm. For most, that kind of schedule just doesn't work and is difficult to maintain (I'm not bringing test and syringes to work and injecting in my office!). If you can make something like that work, you'll see marginally more steady levels, but with the half life of test cyp, injecting M-W-F mornings won't make much of a difference. Some have reported feeling a bit low come Sunday afternoon, but for most that's not an issue.
.
Re timing of feeling better, I'm about five months into my treatment, and started noticing improvements in energy, body composition, and general well-being at about the 2.5 to 3 week mark. I kind of feel like I've plateaued at this point, to be honest, but my weekly dosage was adjusted downward from 128mg/week to 108mg/week at the 3-month mark because my trough total test came back at 1278 and free at 37.9, which Dr. Saya felt was a bit too high. Since adjusting, I don't seem to be "feeling" it quite as much, but I don't know if that's the result of a lower weekly dosage or just getting accustomed to the initial improvements. I'll get another round of labs in a few weeks and we'll see what the numbers look like.

 

[Reason]

My insomnia is starting to take a toll on me. I'm not sure if the treatment has exacerbated the issue or not.

I've been through worse, but 2+ months of bad sleep is rough on the mind and body... I've been combing through the forum and other reference material and it seems like TRT often improves sleep quality, but it can also go the other way. I know I'm early into treatment, but this is starting to worry me.

 

[Systemlord]

It sounds like you may need to do a sleep study, TRT can worsen mild sleep apnea and can really cause problems. I'm almost 11 months into TRT and sleep has been one of those things that is taking the longest to improve along with my erections.

I've heard some mention that the higher doses of testosterone made sleeping impossible and wants their dosages were lowered they were able to sleep. I don't yet think you have been on TRT long enough to see significant improvements. TRT is the gift that keeps on giving the longer you're on it.

 

[Vince]

My insomnia is starting to take a toll on me. I'm not sure if the treatment has exacerbated the issue or not.

I've been through worse, but 2+ months of bad sleep is rough on the mind and body... I've been combing through the forum and other reference material and it seems like TRT often improves sleep quality, but it can also go the other way. I know I'm early into treatment, but this is starting to worry me.

For as long as I can remember I have slept pretty good. For years I have been going to sleep around 10pm and wake up around 5:30 am. I have been on TRT for 4 months now and for the last 2 months I have been waking up earlier around 4:30. At first I was thinking maybe I had to urinate earlier as I am getting older but thinking about it, I don't always even get up to go as its not bad at all. Some of the time I go back to sleep but not always. I feel good during the day and even though I am not getting as much sleep I don't take naps like I used to. Is it possible I simply don't need as much sleep as I was getting or should I be looking at something else?

Sleep on TRT?​

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?12381-Sleep-on-TRT

 

[stx358]

Congratulations on starting your journey. I began the same journey 10 months ago and have dealt with the same sleep issues. My current dose of T Cyp is 70mg every 3.5 days, 150 IU of HCG daily, DHEA 50 mg in the morning and I recently stopped pregnenalone because it was causing extreme irritability - I think - we never REALLY know what is causing this stuff we make our best guess. As Dr. Saya mentioned I moved my DHEA dose to the AM from the PM because I think it was interrupting my sleep but again who knows. I slept 7 hours last night which I consider a victory but for months I was doing the 3-4 AM wakeup that so many people talk about on here, literally brimming with energy and no way I was going back to sleep.

I guess if I had to offer any advice, which I am reluctant to do as I am not an expert just a guy slightly further down the same path you are on, I would say don't put too much stock in whatever effects you are feeling in the first few weeks. In all likelihood you will experience several dose changes as your HPTA begins to shut down and your body adjusts to the T CYP. This board was extremely valuable for me as I went through that process as you will go through some lows and some anxiety. The info on here was a great comfort when I went through that as my "doctor" is basically useless - just a guy I pay for prescriptions. I am thinking about moving to Defy as well because of all the amazing testimony.

 

[Reason]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Apologies for not updating this thread on week 4, very busy at work.

Week 4-5 Update:

TL;DR: Feeling very good (when I sleep OK), best I've felt since starting treatment. Libido great. Starting to notice body composition changes in response to diet/exercise. Best weeks yet!

The Good:

When I do get decent sleep the positive effects of TRT are really starting to show.

I've been an anxious person all my life. Also dealt with depression and general malaise for many years. This started to change with TRT, as documented above, but I'm really feeling it this past week. I'm often caught off-guard by my positive mood and lack of diffuse anxiousness, and find myself wondering if I'm just being stupid and gullible for feeling this good because it's unfamiliar.

I also feel like I'm going through a 2nd "honeymoon period" with my fiancée. I don't know who is happiest with my decision to go on TRT, me or her.

Gained a bit more weight (+5lbs since treatment start) but some of it is definitely muscle mass. Gym has felt good. Recovery is so fast!

All that said, I feel like there's still room for improvement and I'm looking forward to the days to come. I'm really curious to see how I'll feel when I get my sleep under control.

The Bad:

Week 4 insomnia was rough, Week 5 has also been rocky, but better. I am continuing to make tweaks to try and improve things with mixed success. I'll leave it at that.

I felt "moody" this weekend, sort of emotional, but not really sad or euphoric, like a good and intense impatience. I'll keep monitoring as I'm aware it could be linked with high E2 (not taking an AI right now).

Shallow IM injections cause really bad soreness. Last thigh shot was so sore I was almost walking with a limp. I've given up on it and doing SubQ only from now on.

--

I still want to transition into a daily injection schedule (see above). Is it too soon?