Scrotal Testosterone Cream half life & High DHT

[edvedder]

I have been on the scrotal cream for the last few months. My dose for the last month before the test was 3 clicks (150 mg) once in the morning. I wanted to check how fast the cream leaves the system and my levels at the trough. What i see 24 hours after application of 3 clicks:
Total T: 600 ng/dL
DHT: 174 ng/dL (30-85)

So, T went down as expected but it looks like DHT seems to accumulate and stick around longer. Are there any known concerns with a high DHT level ? The two popular ones I hear are hair loss and prostrate issues but I think there are studies on the latter that reduce concern about this. So just wanted to check if anyone on here has been running high DHT levels for a while and if they have experienced any issues.

 

[Gman86]

I have been on the scrotal cream for the last few months. My dose for the last month before the test was 3 clicks (150 mg) once in the morning. I wanted to check how fast the cream leaves the system and my levels at the trough. What i see 24 hours after application of 3 clicks:
Total T: 600 ng/dL
DHT: 174 ng/dL (30-85)

So, T went down as expected but it looks like DHT seems to accumulate and stick around longer. Are there any known concerns with a high DHT level ? The two popular ones I hear are hair loss and prostrate issues but I think there are studies on the latter that reduce concern about this. So just wanted to check if anyone on here has been running high DHT levels for a while and if they have experienced any issues.

Thanks for posting this. Love when people do little experiments like this. And nice to finally see what someone’s DHT level is while doing scrotal cream. When do you usually get labs done while on the cream? And how do these current labs above compare to other labs you’ve had done while on cream?

 

[Vince Carter]

When I would use a much less amount, 12.5 - 25mg I would see a rise in DHT to about ~100 on a 16-79 scale. I documented a return to baseline within 24hrs...I have to use it every morning as it does not linger or have a long half-life in my particular system.
I use this as an addition to my injections, you use it much differently in a much higher dose so you're seeing something different.
PSA should be a part of your routine tests but otherwise the demonization of DHT for Prostate and hair loss is largely untrue. People won't question running a TT of 1200, or Free T > 3% but if DHT is high there's a totally different response which is puzzling.

 

[edvedder]

Thanks for posting this. Love when people do little experiments like this. And nice to finally see what someone’s DHT level is while doing scrotal cream. When do you usually get labs done while on the cream? And how do these current labs above compare to other labs you’ve had done while on cream?

I usually measure closer to the peak between 4-5 hours after application. I had not measured DHT before so no idea about what that would be. I first started on 4 clicks and saw 1300 similar to this case study (but got too much acne) :
Case Study: Absorption of Testosterone Cream via Scrotal Delivery. - PubMed - NCBI
I was feeling pretty good on 4 except for the acne but I had one weird incident where I had this insane amount of anger which worried me a bit. Probably an anomaly but the acne and my doctor not being keen on scrotal meant that i went down to 2 clicks to see if that would help. Got perfect numbers all within range with a T of 840 but wasn't quite feeling like i was on trt. So that's why i landed at 3 clicks , haven't checked peak yet at 3 clicks but i'd imagine it should be around 1000.

 

[edvedder]

People won't question running a TT of 1200, or Free T > 3% but if DHT is high there's a totally different response which is puzzling.

sigh, i assumed the trough would crash the DHT so that my doc would not panic but my grand plan did not work out. So its going to be an interesting follow up appointment!

 

[Vince Carter]

You could consider 2 clicks in the AM and 1 in the PM perhaps and spread it around vs 3 clicks all at once. Or do 1 of those clicks to the shoulders, etc, to help reduce some DHT if the number really bothers you.

 

[broker]

Finasteride reduces DHT by up to 70%.
Finasteride is proven to reduce the size of the prostate.
Finasteride is proven to stop hair loss in many men.
If finasteride reduces DHT by 70% and while using it, your hair loss stops and your prostate shrinks: what does that say about DHT ?
Answer - dht causes male pattern baldness and dht increases the prostate. If you have zero DHT, you will never go bald and you will never get an enlarged prostate.
For hair loss, higher dht will speed it up.. there is no doubt.
For the prostate, some men notice prostate issues when dht is high, some dont. For the prostate, we dont know how much is too much. However, we do know that very low dht will shrink it. The evidence with finasteride proves that.
I do not endorse using finasteride, i am just stating facts.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I think it is widely confirmed among users of compounds closely related to DHT (e.g. Masteron, Proviron) that high DHT will accelerate MPB if you are prone to it, but it does not cause MPB. "many" men does not mean all men.

 

[Gman86]

What about the guys that are in-between though. The ones that have hair still, yet report some hair thinning when their DHT gets very high. Is that different than being completely prone to MPB? I'm 33, and have all my hair, so probably not extremely prone to MPB, but am still worried about hair thinning.

 

[fifty]

My dht is flagged as low and i have pretty significant hair thinning.

 

[Vince Carter]

Finasteride reduces DHT by up to 70%.
Finasteride is proven to reduce the size of the prostate.
Finasteride is proven to stop hair loss in many men.
Finasteride chemically neuters a man.
If finasteride reduces DHT by 70% and while using it, your hair loss stops and your prostate shrinks: what does that say about DHT ?
Answer - dht causes male pattern baldness and dht increases the prostate. If you have zero DHT, you will never go bald and you will never get an enlarged prostate.
For hair loss, higher dht will speed it up.. there is no doubt.
For the prostate, some men notice prostate issues when dht is high, some dont. For the prostate, we dont know how much is too much. However, we do know that very low dht will shrink it. The evidence with finasteride proves that.
I do not endorse using finasteride, i am just stating facts.

Added the key part that you very conspicuously left out.

 

[broker]

I never said i endorsed finasteride. However, you are ignoring facts. Dht accelerates hair loss and causes prostate enlargement. If that were not true, how do explain finsteride stopping hair loss and shrinking the prostate?
Anyone that tries to say DHT doesnt cause male pattern baldness and doesnt incease the size of the prostate is wrong. The results of finasteride prove that.

 

[Gman86]

I never said i endorsed finasteride. However, you are ignoring facts. Dht accelerates hair loss and causes prostate enlargement. If that were not true, how do explain finsteride stopping hair loss and shrinking the prostate?
Anyone that tries to say DHT doesnt cause male pattern baldness and doesnt incease the size of the prostate is wrong. The results of finasteride prove that.

I’ve always thought very similarly. If finasteride didn’t work, it wouldn’t be used by millions of people. So taking into account that it actually works, there has to be a DHT component to accelerating hair loss, or at very least hair thinning.

 

[Vvs1]

I never said i endorsed finasteride. However, you are ignoring facts. Dht accelerates hair loss and causes prostate enlargement. If that were not true, how do explain finsteride stopping hair loss and shrinking the prostate?
Anyone that tries to say DHT doesnt cause male pattern baldness and doesnt incease the size of the prostate is wrong. The results of finasteride prove that.

I realized your intentions of using fin as a possible proving point, but a guy researching fin is likely not going to decipher through this whole thread once he sees a ringing "endorsement"- in his mind.

 

[Vvs1]

I’ve always thought very similarly. If finasteride didn’t work, it wouldn’t be used by millions of people. So taking into account that it actually works, there has to be a DHT component to accelerating hair loss, or at very least hair thinning.

I'm betting that there has to be estrogen involved with DHT for the negatives. It could be that if you have tons of estrogen floating around that DHT would be made to protect the prostate from estrogen, inducing mass gain. I really doubt It's DHT acting alone.

They really shouldn't use a hardcore cancer drug to combat hair loss.

Alot of guys are silently suffering not knowing its caused by fin. I had a hard time reading the suicide stories, and about their years of struggle.

 

[broker]

Many older men who probably have high estrogen take finasteride and it still shrinks their prostate despite having high estrogen.
Estrogen has nothing to do with hair loss.

 

[Vince Carter]

Its said DHT opposes or antagonizes Estrogen. I'd rather deal with supposed (!) DHT/MPB/Prostate issue without a drug that other wise chemical neuters me. I might still be alive without those issues but a whole NEW set of problems.

 

[Vvs1]

Many older men who probably have high estrogen take finasteride and it still shrinks their prostate despite having high estrogen.
Estrogen has nothing to do with hair loss.

These older guys have higher estrogen which correlates to the same age of prostate growth. So it's likely the combination of estrogen and DHT. But why do you want to inhibit the most masculine hormone and induce PFS, and not estrogen?

Just because millions of guys take it doesnt mean that it works. Millions take it in hopes that ot works. After a guy gets PFS, hair becomes the least worry, and will still fall out on cessation. No respected doctor here would ever recommend it. PFS guys call it poison.

 

[broker]

Finasteride does stop hair loss in most. That said, its most important use is for shrinking the prostate. As men age their prostate grows.
If its estrogen, then why does finasteride shrink the prostate. Finataeride only reduces dht and does not lower estrogen. In fact, Vince made a point that lowering dht raises estrogen. If thats true and estrogen rises, the prostate still reduces in size by lowering dht with finasteride.

 

[Vvs1]

Finasteride does stop hair loss in most. That said, its most important use is for shrinking the prostate. As men age their prostate grows.
If its estrogen, then why does finasteride shrink the prostate. Finataeride only reduces dht and does not lower estrogen. In fact, Vince made a point that lowering dht raises estrogen. If thats true and estrogen rises, the prostate still reduces in size by lowering dht with finasteride.

Lol. If it does stop hair loss, then why do guys continue seeking help on hair loss forums? You're still dodging the Estrogen/DHT combination. Why inhibit the king male hormone instead of estrogen? Estrogen is WAY more cancer inducing. That's why breast cancer has an estimated 270,000 new cases, when Testicular cancer only 10,000.

Why take a cancer drug to attempt stopping hair loss? It's overmarketed to create delusions that it works.

Black tea can inhibit DHT just as much without any life altering, disabling life changes.

Propecia correlated suicides:
In Memoriam: Patient Suicides - propeciahelp.com

Best believe that when I lose hair I'm going to MAN UP and shave it off, get a transplant, or a toupee. My uncle had a toupee, looked great plus he kept his manhood.