Rotator cuff complete tear- Can testosterone help?

[Brooksy Chuck]

after have 2months of pt and still pain i finally got an mri that showed complete tear and tendon retraction- i have never had a surgery but i am thinking now is time... i am on alot of meds and wondering how do i best manage this?
thyroid, HC, testo.. (a low dose ) wondering if the slight increase in my HCT would be anything to be concerned with around surgery? it is the right shoulder and i am right handed so this will be in interesting..also my vechile is a clutch- i dont have alot of folks to depend on i may be able to get a couple.. but just wondering what are the best things i can do to prepare to make this successful.. Dr's are real jerks.. the guy 2 months ago told me i was taking a long time to heal because i am over 40..that was before the mri and after PT.

also i think this happend in april. the dr today said it may be too old to repair but then he is the same one that said it was "old age"
what is up with these dr's and how to know if i surgery will really help or not? thanks!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20690845

Bone Joint Surg Am. 2011 Dec 7;93(23):2189-95. doi: 10.2106/JBJS.J.01589.
Anabolic steroids reduce muscle damage caused by rotator cuff tendon release in an experimental study in rabbits.Gerber C, Meyer DC, Nuss KM, Farshad M.
[h=3]Source[/b]Department of Orthopedics, University of Zürich, Balgrist University Hospital, Forchstrasse 340, Zürich, Switzerland.

[h=3]Abstract[/b][h=4]BACKGROUND:[/b]Muscles of the rotator cuff undergo retraction, atrophy, and fatty infiltration after a chronic tear, and a rabbit model has been used to investigate these changes. The purpose of this study was to test the hypothesis that the administration of anabolic steroids can diminish these muscular changes following experimental supraspinatus tendon release in the rabbit.
[h=4]METHODS:[/b]The supraspinatus tendon was released in twenty New Zealand White rabbits. Musculotendinous retraction was monitored over a period of six weeks. The seven animals in group I had no additional intervention, the six animals in group II had local and systemic administration of nandrolone decanoate, and the seven animals in group III had systemic administration of nandrolone decanoate during the six weeks. Two animals (group III) developed a postoperative infection and were excluded from the analysis. At the time that the animals were killed, in vivo muscle performance as well as imaging and histological muscle changes were investigated.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/b]The mean supraspinatus retraction was higher in group I (1.8 cm; 95% confidence interval: 1.64, 2.02 cm) than in group II (1.5 cm; 95% confidence interval: 1.29, 1.81 cm) or III (1.2 cm; 95% confidence interval: 0.86, 1.54 cm). Histologically, no fatty infiltration was measured in either treated group II (mean, 2.2%; range, 0% to 8%) or III (mean, 1%; range, 0% to 3.4%), but it was measured in the untreated group I (mean, 5.9%; range, 0% to 14.1%; p = 0.031). The radiographic cross-sectional area indicating atrophy and the work of the respective muscle during one standardized contraction with supramaximal stimulation decreased in all groups, but the work of the muscle was ultimately highest in group III.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/b]To our knowledge, this is the first documentation of partial prevention of important muscle alterations after retraction of the supraspinatus musculotendinous unit caused by tendon disruption. Nandrolone decanoate administration in the phase after tendon release prevented fatty infiltration of the supraspinatus muscle and reduced functional muscle impairment caused by myotendinous retraction in this rabbit rotator cuff model, but two of seven rabbits that received the drug developed infections.


[h=3]Comment in[/b]

 

[indydaddy]

After being told (based on a MRI) that my rotator cuff was torn and retracted by one shoulder specialist, who recommended surgery, I saw another doctor who looked at the same MRI and said my tear was not complete and would heal. Six months later my shoulder pain is completely gone and I am so happy I did not have the surgery done. Who do you believe?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Believe me, I know the feeling.

I have had 3 back surgeries and a quad tear surgery.

Surgeons are in the business to perform surgery. So I always try to get at least two opinions from two different doctors and (if possible) from people not in the business to cut you. I have made each decision but one like this. The only surgery that I rushed into without a second opinion was a disaster.

Second opinions take time and may also have to be paid out of pocket. But at least we can use data from the first to use with the second doctor. But even same data is read differently as you experienced.

I am so glad you can now celebrate your healing and your common sense second opinion decision.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I think the internet has lowered the powers of doctors not to be questioned by patients who previously had no access to medical information. I think this is great for patients. But It surely makes doctors better providers since their recommendations are evaluated a bit more by educated patients. When a human being has the power to recommend something that can change your life for the better or worse, that recommendation should be evaluated. And before the internet all we had to empower ourselves was medical libraries.

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

this is alot of great input! thanks.. i would love to try some deca but getting an rx for it will probably not be easy!. so far all i have is the radiologist report from the MRI. i have a dr's appt on tues and then working to get a second opinion from another dr that is supposed to be really conservative as far as surgery goes.
all i know is it has been over 7 months and i have done 2 months of PT and a couple months of laying off at the gym and i am still in pain when i try to go back to the gym. i was hoping after 7 months it would have healed.
at this point i am wondering if it is safe to do any upper body workouts? and what to avoid? while i am getting the orthopedic dr's lined up . thanks for the encouragement!

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

Believe me, I know the feeling.

I have had 3 back surgeries and a quad tear surgery.

Surgeons are in the business to perform surgery. So I always try to get at least two opinions from two different doctors and (if possible) from people not in the business to cut you. I have made each decision but one like this. The only surgery that I rushed into without a second opinion was a disaster.

Second opinions take time and may also have to be paid out of pocket. But at least we can use data from the first to use with the second doctor. But even same data is read differently as you experienced.

I am so glad you can now celebrate your healing and your common sense second opinion decision.

Nelson! you have been through it! to see your photos with your strong self and compassionate smile, i would never think you have been through so much! i aspire to be more like you-- even 10% more would be a big help! i fall to self pity and fear too easy.

 

[indydaddy]

My shoulder had hurt for well over 2 years. I kept hoping and waiting for it to heal. Babied it by not working out for months but the pain not only persisted it got worse to the point that I could not sleep at night because the pain woke me up. It was hurting so bad I decided I had to do something so I got the MRI. Can't explain why it healed (I don't believe in miracles) but the pain went away and I am back to my normal workouts. I was taking nandrolone the entire time.

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

we will see what happens i guess when i see the orthopedic surgeon. I am glad yours healed up well indydaddy. in the meantime are there any upper body exercise that are safe to do or not do? I am from Indianapolis originally. small world!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I would avoid upper body completely

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

i saw the first orthapedic surgeon today .. it said it will be a long recovery and 2 months before i can drive( as my truck is a stick shift) said arm will be in a sling for 6 weeks pretty much 24 -7.. said it will be painful but better to do it sooner rather than later- I will get a second opinon from a dr that i have heard is reallly really good but he is booked untill late nov.
so
because of my other "chronic health/fatigue" issues i dont have alot of reliable people in my life.. so i will pretty much be solo on this adventure i think.. is that gonna be possibe to do this and have a successful outcome so i can start working out again.. the gym is the one consistant in my life.. my family is miles away and no one really talks to me anymore since i moved to CA.

hope others can share they the get through this "stag" style. thanks!

 

[Dave Barry]

Typically, when you get an MRI, you will receive a cd of the actual MRI so take that and the actual reports from the MRI and x-rays, to another orthopedic Sports Medicine doctor ASAP. The longer you wait to deal with this problem, the more likely you will lose some functionality of the shoulder joint permanently. Personally, I would not try to obtain any anabolic and see what happens in time. Often, an anabolic will mask the pain, meanwhile you certainly can cause more damage. In the future, don't wait so long to get an MRI. I have had two shoulder injuries in the last three years and had an MRI within 2-weeks of both injuries. Sometimes you have to pressure the doctor and/or get him/her to realize that your injury is impeding your life on a daily basis; therefore, you cannot afford to wait 2-3 months to get the proper diagnostic tests done. However, sometimes your insurance will require a certain amount of pt, before they will pay for an MRI.

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

the sports dr was great the surgery sounds like a breeze ..it is the aftercare and recovery that sounds challenging.. i dont have alot of people to help me at this point, working on it though. he is booked 4 to 6 weeks out so i will have some time. he said i could go either way since i dont have alot of pain and still have good range of motion. he also said my low dose of testo wouldn't be an issue and it may help with the healing.
he said 2months before i can drive and 3 months to fullly healed and functional- man that is a long time! i am not sure what i will do with myself not if i can't drive and and i can't go to the gym.

 

[indydaddy]

Since my shoulder pain completely resolved without surgery, my opinion is to wait a few months. I was told my MRI showed a complete tear of my rotator cuff with retraction. I am so happy I did not have the surgery.

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

it would be great if it healed on it's own.. however it has already been almost 8 months.. how long did yours take to heal?

 

[Carlos]

Back in 1992 I had a shoulder surgery and one week after I was back to the gym for leg work 3 times a week. 6 weeks after surgery I started uper body exercises and 6 months after surgery full powerlifting until today. My susurgery was for cleaning spurs on my right shoulder.

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

that is encouraging! i have a spur but also have a complete tendon tear that needs to get reattached.. he said 2 months before i could even drive..wonder why so long?

 

[Carlos]

I belive it all depends. But I think you can start training very light and go on slowly just to pump some blood in the area use DMSO and Glycine (injected) for recovery. Maybe a Dr. Could verify this but it work very well for me.

 

[indydaddy]

I waited over 2 years from the time the pain started before I finally saw an Orthopedist. I am a physician and I knew from the symptoms that it was most likely a rotator cuff tear. I just could not imagine wearing a sling and being unable to use my dominant hand/arm for 6 weeks. I am a believer that if you wait long enough most things will heal so I waited. The pain began to get worse so I got the MRI. Looking at the same MRI, one shoulder specialist said it was a complete tear with retraction; another said it was not completely torn, not retracted and could heal on it's own. Apparently it healed as the pain resolved and has never hurt again. I am back to working out normally.

 

[Brooksy Chuck]

i saw to orthapedic surgeons both said complete tear with retraction and the second one showed me on the MRI .. the second one (the best one as recommended by a few people) said the tear is a little larger than a nickel size.. he said if it were larger than a quarter he would tell me i would have to have surgery right away. .. he said i will need someone to help fill the "ice machine" any of you have to use one of those? i am wondering if i can just use a garden hose from outside?