Rock bottom LH and FSH levels

[steelernation]

Hello everyone,

32 year old male here. Had Low T out of nowhere when I hit 30 years old. I am currently about 95% complete on a TRT program with a dose of 125mg twice per week of Testosterone Cypionate and Propionate Mix and 1mg twice per week of Anastrozole as well as 250iu's twice a week of HCG.

I recently had my blood levels taken and I am very concerned with my LH and FSH Levels. Now, I have never had my bloods taken while being on the program before and this is my second program so maybe my levels were low before as well. Attached is my lab results and keep in mind my dose of testosterone was taking at 6pm before I gave blood at 8:15am the next day so my Test Serum is very high. Should I start my PCT sooner or finish the last two weeks of my program?

My PCT looks like this:
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]4 WEEK CLEANSE PHASE
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
(1) HCG 11000 Unit Vial[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Protocol: 1000 units daily. Subcutaneous injection.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
(30) 50mg Clomiphene Citrate Capsules [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Protocol: Two capsules daily. Oral.[/FONT]

 

[Saxon]

Hello everyone,

32 year old male here. Had Low T out of nowhere when I hit 30 years old. I am currently about 95% complete on a TRT program with a dose of 125mg twice per week of Testosterone Cypionate and Propionate Mix and 1mg twice per week of Anastrozole as well as 250iu's twice a week of HCG.

What exactly are you doing? What does 95% complete on a TRT program mean? TRT is Testosterone Replacement not Testosterone Refilling Station. You either stay on or go off, you seem to be cycling testosterone and at really low dose which makes no sense.

I recently had my blood levels taken and I am very concerned with my LH and FSH Levels. Now, I have never had my bloods taken while being on the program before and this is my second program so maybe my levels were low before as well.

When you've taken exogenous testosterone for a few weeks (maybe even less), your body ceases to make its own testosterone. One of the indices of whether you are "shut down" and not producing your own testosterone is super low (non-existent) LH and FSH. This is normal on a cycle or TRT.

Attached is my lab results and keep in mind my dose of testosterone was taking at 6pm before I gave blood at 8:15am the next day so my Test Serum is very high. Should I start my PCT sooner or finish the last two weeks of my program?

You are using Cyp and Prop. Cyp has the longer half life so start your PCT around 18 -20 days from the last injection. Since you have HCG, I'd propose the following:

Last injection plus 10 days nothing. Day 10 through 21, HCG 1000iu ED, then for the next 6 weeks I'd take 50mg of Clomid ED (not 100mg).

 

[CoastWatcher]

Hello everyone,

32 year old male here. Had Low T out of nowhere when I hit 30 years old. I am currently about 95% complete on a TRT program with a dose of 125mg twice per week of Testosterone Cypionate and Propionate Mix and 1mg twice per week of Anastrozole as well as 250iu's twice a week of HCG.

I recently had my blood levels taken and I am very concerned with my LH and FSH Levels. Now, I have never had my bloods taken while being on the program before and this is my second program so maybe my levels were low before as well. Attached is my lab results and keep in mind my dose of testosterone was taking at 6pm before I gave blood at 8:15am the next day so my Test Serum is very high. Should I start my PCT sooner or finish the last two weeks of my program?

My PCT looks like this:
4 WEEK CLEANSE PHASE


(1) HCG 11000 Unit Vial
Protocol: 1000 units daily. Subcutaneous injection.

(30) 50mg Clomiphene Citrate Capsules
Protocol: Two capsules daily. Oral.

Of course your LH and FSH are going to be low - that's what exogenous testosterone does. HCG, while maintaining testicular vitality and working to support other hormonal activity, doesn't/can't prevent that. No way, no how. You've been shut down since shortly after you initiated therapy.

What is your goal with your "cycles"? This is a therapeutic community, not an anabolic board. Why are you driving your total testosterone so high and forcing your estradiol so low? Why are you testing when you do, rather than just prior to an injection? Estradiol isn't a waste product, healthy, appropriate levels are necessary for optimal male health. As an aside, you are measuring your estradiol with the incorrect lab test, range is a dead giveaway. Future testing should be done with the sensitive, LC, MS/MS, lab test.

 

[steelernation]

Of course your LH and FSH are going to be low - that's what exogenous testosterone does. HCG, while maintaining testicular vitality and working to support other hormonal activity, doesn't/can't prevent that. No way, no how. You've been shut down since shortly after you initiated therapy.

What is your goal with your "cycles"? This is a therapeutic community, not an anabolic board. Why are you driving your total testosterone so high and forcing your estradiol so low? Why are you testing when you do, rather than just prior to an injection? Estradiol isn't a waste product, healthy, appropriate levels are necessary for optimal male health. As an aside, you are measuring your estradiol with the incorrect lab test, range is a dead giveaway. Future testing should be done with the sensitive, LC, MS/MS, lab test.

That's why I came here...since this is not a anabolic board. I did not think that my dosage was considered anabolic since I have seen very similar protocols to the one I am describing.

I had some signs of puffy and sensative nipples which is why my doctor had me up my dosage of Anastrozole thus driving my estrogen low.

Did not know I was using the wrong lab tests. This is good information thank you.

 

[steelernation]

What exactly are you doing? What does 95% complete on a TRT program mean? TRT is Testosterone Replacement not Testosterone Refilling Station. You either stay on or go off, you seem to be cycling testosterone and at really low dose which makes no sense.



When you've taken exogenous testosterone for a few weeks (maybe even less), your body ceases to make its own testosterone. One of the indices of whether you are "shut down" and not producing your own testosterone is super low (non-existent) LH and FSH. This is normal on a cycle or TRT.




You are using Cyp and Prop. Cup has the longer half life so start your PCT around 18 -20 days from the last injection. Since you have HCG, I'd propose the following:

Last injection plus 10 days nothing. Day 10 through 21, HCG 1000iu ED, then for the next 6 weeks I'd take 50mg of Clomid ED (not 100mg).

I have been doing TRT in 6 month programs and then will get off for about 6 months before I test my levels again. When I first started my Test was around 395. Following my first 6 month program and proper PCT I had labs done again about 4-5 months after this and my Test was sitting at 501. I guess I am hoping to kickstart my production to where I no longer need it. Sorry Im a rookie here and this is only my second time around with this stuff.

Also I was told by my TRT Clinic to come off every 6 months and do a PCT in order to have my nuts come back full circle before starting another 6 month program. They actually suggest not staying on it year round and taking breaks like I am doing now.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

This post reminds me of those "spot the errors" assignments from English class in grade school. There's so much wrong here, it's hard to even begin. Rather than nitpicking, I'll cut straight to the chase. You should not cycle on and off of testosterone. This whole idea of forcing the endocrine system on/off is unhealthy. If your goal was to optimize your endogenous testosterone production, you should never have touched testosterone to begin with. It is not impossible to come off and restore natural production, but it is going to be much, much harder. You should have gone on a proper clomid regimen directed by an experienced trt physician. In fact, you still can, but it will be more difficult for you to recover and reach an optimal hormone level, considering you are coming off of exogenous testosterone. Your other option is to stay ON a trt regimen year-round, under the supervision of a doctor who actually knows what they're doing.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I have been doing TRT in 6 month programs and then will get off for about 6 months before I test my levels again. When I first started my Test was around 395. Following my first 6 month program and proper PCT I had labs done again about 4-5 months after this and my Test was sitting at 501. I guess I am hoping to kickstart my production to where I no longer need it. Sorry Im a rookie here and this is only my second time around with this stuff.

Also I was told by my TRT Clinic to come off every 6 months and do a PCT in order to have my nuts come back full circle before starting another 6 month program. They actually suggest not staying on it year round and taking breaks like I am doing now.

You are receiving substandard care. You need to make three decisions:

1. Do you want to try and restart my natural production of testosterone? If so, quit these silly "cycles" and see if a well managed Clomid protocol will do that. It takes time, a knowledgeable doctor, and patience on your part. These cycles will do NOTHING to restart your natural production. Every time you start one you shut down your axis. Hardly the way to see if your body can produce its own testosterone.

2. Do you want to commit to TRT? If so, realize it's not an on again/off again undertaking. A well-tailored protocol, which you don't have, is maintained as part of an ongoing effort to achieve optimal levels.

3. Do you need another doctor? I believe you do. You have tanked your estradiol, sent testosterone skyrocketing, are testing at the wrong point of your injection protocol, measuring e2 with the wrong test...and have not been given proper information to be an active partner in your treatment. You deserve better.

 

[steelernation]

This post reminds me of those "spot the errors" assignments from English class in grade school. There's so much wrong here, it's hard to even begin. Rather than nitpicking, I'll cut straight to the chase. You should not cycle on and off of testosterone. This whole idea of forcing the endocrine system on/off is unhealthy. If your goal was to optimize your endogenous testosterone production, you should never have touched testosterone to begin with. It is not impossible to come off and restore natural production, but it is going to be much, much harder. You should have gone on a proper clomid regimen directed by an experienced trt physician. In fact, you still can, but it will be more difficult for you to recover and reach an optimal hormone level, considering you are coming off of exogenous testosterone. Your other option is to stay ON a trt regimen year-round, under the supervision of a doctor who actually knows what they're doing.

Appreciate you cutting to the chase. I guess my next step is finding a doctor in my area (Houston) who knows what he's talking about and can work with me on trying to increase my endogenous testosterone production to avoid Testosterone injections. If I need them forever I'm fine with it but I would rather exhaust all other options first without it. Not to add I plan to have kids at some point in the next 2 years.

 

[steelernation]

You are receiving substandard care. You need to make three decisions:

1. Do you want to try and restart my natural production of testosterone? If so, quit these silly "cycles" and see if a well managed Clomid protocol will do that. It takes time, a knowledgeable doctor, and patience on your part. These cycles will do NOTHING to restart your natural production. Every time you start one you shut down your axis. Hardly the way to see if your body can produce its own testosterone.

2. Do you want to commit to TRT? If so, realize it's not an on again/off again undertaking. A well-tailored protocol, which you don't have, is maintained as part of an ongoing effort to achieve optimal levels.

3. Do you need another doctor? I believe you do. You have tanked your estradiol, sent testosterone skyrocketing, are testing at the wrong point of your injection protocol, measuring e2 with the wrong test...and have not been given proper information to be an active partner in your treatment. You deserve better.

Yes to option #1. If it fails I will work with option #2. After this short thread I couldn't agree more with you on option #3. Thank you so much for the pointers. Now to find a legitimate doctor. I feel that's tough to do though. Could be wrong but without knowing how would I know I am in the hands of a good one? Since I thought my current Dr was a good one.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Appreciate you cutting to the chase. I guess my next step is finding a doctor in my area (Houston) who knows what he's talking about and can work with me on trying to increase my endogenous testosterone production to avoid Testosterone injections. If I need them forever I'm fine with it but I would rather exhaust all other options first without it. Not to add I plan to have kids at some point in the next 2 years.

You have a number of options in Houston area, and you aren't limited to those doctors who you are close to. Prime Body and Defy Medical, site sponsors, can give you access to some of the leading practitioners in the United States. Call them. Ask them questions about fees. They won't dodge your questions. Dr. Larry Lipschultz, a Houston urologist, is highly respected in this field. He is a good friend of Nelson's.