Question on EOD Injections VS 2 Times Wk To Keep HCT In Line

[1Draw]

I am currently having to have a phelebotomy every 8 weeks to keep HCT in range. My old protocol was .25 ml 2 times per week or 100 mg a week. Latest blood test on 2/2 showed
ferritin at 40.1

Had a consult with my DR and he agreed EOD will lower HCT and suggested 18-20ml
EOD with OK to go as low as .15 EOD.

So thought I would get some opinions here from the pro's and maybe from those that
have had the same challenge and what worked for them. I'm a high SHBG guy and I
know that I may have to live with Free T on the lower end and I'm ok with that if it
eliminates the need to donate every 8 weeks. IMO it's the preferable option

 

[S1W]

I am currently having to have a phelebotomy every 8 weeks to keep HCT in range. My old protocol
was .25 2 times a week. Latest blood test showed ferritin at 40.1.

Had a consult with my DR and he recommended .18 EOD but I'm thinking maybe lower like .15 to start
and test levels in 6 weeks. May save having to donate again while tweaking to find amount that works.

So so thought I would get some opinions here from the pro's and maybe from those that have had the
same challenge. I'm a high SHBG guy and I know may have to live with free T at lower end but, I'm ok
with that if I can stop having to donate every 8 weeks. I think it's the preferable option.

To clarify, when reading your post it looks like you were on 50mg/week (25mg E3.5D) and are now moving to 63mg week (18mg EOD).

Is that correct - your old protocol was 50mg/week?

 

[Vince Carter]

I think it's futile, if it works you'd probably be well under a clinically effective dose of T and honestly if it's that big of a deal then I'd just get off TRT. HCT/Donations are pretty much the gold standard side effect. Being high SHBG would make it even worse as your Free T would be in the subterranean range.

 

[1Draw]

S1W I've corrected the post. Was on .25ml or 50mg 2 x week or 100 mg week.

 

[FeelingLost]

1Draw, I have been on M/W/F protocol that is not quite EOD but dam close for the last 10 weeks. It did not help my HCT on week 8 my HCT was 51.7.
I believe everyone is different and you will just have to see if it helps you. Good luck.

 

[1Draw]

Thanks for the feedback FL. I figured nothing ventured nothing gained and if it doesn't work then
I can always go back to old injection schedule. I'm wondering if anyone has tried EOD and the results. I know some are doing daily injections with some success with keeping
HCT in line.

 

[Systemlord]

Thanks for the feedback FL. I figured nothing ventured nothing gained and if it doesn't work then
I can always go back to old injection schedule. I'm wondering if anyone has tried EOD and the results.
i know there have been some who went to daily's with some success with keeping HCT from spiking.

I started injecting EOD since last October and for the life of me cannot control my E2 levels, even on 70mg weekly or 18mg EOD (no AI), yet I'm perfectly fine injecting 50mg twice weekly. My results injecting EOD seems to be the opposite for me from everyone else, I have more control over my E2 levels injecting less frequently than EOD. E2 levels always get out of control the closer I get to 4-6 weeks after a protocol change, I felt my best injecting 50mg twice weekly.

I believe injecting EOD creates a serum level that only travels in one direction for me, upwards as if there are no more valleys where I'm constantly peaking higher and higher after every injection that reaches a point where E2 levels just take over. I'm going to steal your quote, nothing ventured nothing gained. Given my SHBG level of 18-20 nmol/L, injecting 75mg once weekly saw a peak of 531 and 6 days later a trough of 442, this tells me that I don't metabolize testosterone very quickly nor do I excrete much of it.

I can only imagine how stable my bloods levels were on 50mg twice weekly.

My HCT was 45.2% injecting 50mg twice weekly and 46% on 20mg EOD, so slightly higher HCT on an EOD day protocol. Realise this change in HCT is insignificant.

As far as my EOD protocol, I'm done! Twice weekly here I come.

Everyone truly is different.

 

[FeelingLost]

I started injecting EOD since last October and for the life of me cannot control my E2 levels, even on 70mg weekly or 18mg EOD (no AI), yet I'm perfectly fine injecting 50mg twice weekly. My results injecting EOD seems to be the opposite for me from everyone else, I have more control over my E2 levels injecting less frequently than EOD. E2 levels always get out of control the closer I get to 4-6 weeks after a protocol change, I felt my best injecting 50mg twice weekly.

I believe injecting EOD creates a serum level that only travels in one direction for me, upwards as if there are no more valleys where I'm constantly peaking higher and higher after every injection that reaches a point where E2 levels just take over. I'm going to steal your quote, nothing ventured nothing gained. Given my SHBG level of 18-20 nmol/L, injecting 75mg once weekly saw a peak of 531 and 6 days later a trough of 442, this tells me that I don't metabolize testosterone very quickly nor do I excrete much of it.

I can only imagine how stable my bloods levels were on 50mg twice weekly.

My HCT was 45.2% injecting 50mg twice weekly and 46% on 20mg EOD, so slightly higher HCT on an EOD day protocol. Realise this change in HCT is insignificant.

As far as my EOD protocol, I'm done! Twice weekly here I come.

Everyone truly is different.

I think you might be on to something Systemlord. I'll bet our body like a rhythm even if it is not the circadian rhythm.

If you look at the Steady State of T cyp being 40 days and you have double the T you are injecting then one does just keep going up at least until
Steady State is reached. Most probably blow by there sweet spot on the way up. I've read it hear a lot. You start a new protocol and some where along the way you feel great than all of a sudden you don't then HCT and E2 go crazy ...

I want to try M/T some time in the future. If my HCT will stay down to something reasonable I would love not sticking myself one less time per week.

 

[Systemlord]

I think you might be on to something Systemlord. I'll bet our body like a rhythm even if it is not the circadian rhythm.

If you look at the Steady State of T cyp being 40 days and you have double the T you are injecting then one does just keep going up at least until
Steady State is reached. Most probably blow by there sweet spot on the way up. I've read it hear a lot. You start a new protocol and some where along the way you feel great than all of a sudden you don't then HCT and E2 go crazy ...

I want to try M/T some time in the future. If my HCT will stay down to something reasonable I would love not sticking myself one less time per week.

I may have had a change of heart, had a talk with my endo today and told her that while my E2 is high my sleep quality is fantastic when my E2 is high. When I was injecting 50mg twice weekly my sleep quality was no good, I had a wakefulness during the night. So tonight I Googled "Estrogen and sleep quality" and I was shocked, menopausal women who have low estrogen have poor sleep quality.

If I go back to twice weekly I know my sleep quality will return to a poor state again, I always thought my libido and erections returned because my E2 was high and even though it's probably true, I think it was also because my sleep quality improved and we all know that without stage 4 REM sleep you can kiss libido and your erections goodbye. I felt a sweet spot a week ago, then towards the end of week 5 saw high E2 again.

Another thing, my libido and erections didn't come online until a few weeks after I started sleeping well and I believe this is why it took so long for erections to start appearing for the first time in a long time ~ sleep.

I missed my injection earlier today and feel better already, symptoms are already subsiding so perhaps I just need to lower my dose again. I'm too close to give up now.

I hope posting my experience helps the OP.

 

[Vince]

Would you consider injecting 10mg of T cyp daily and see what results you have. If your HCT is in a good range, you can slowly move up. Hopefully after some time your HCT will stabilize.

 

[S1W]

Having read through this thread, is there anyone out there who has had success managing E2 and hematocrit moving from E3.5D to EOD? Or is the consensus that EOD just isn't worth it or may even be counterproductive?

 

[1Draw]

Would you consider injecting 10mg of T cyp daily and see what results you have. If your HCT is in a good range, you can slowly move up. Hopefully after some time your HCT will stabilize.

Vince I may give 10mg day a try if EOD 18mg doesn't work. Very good suggestion. I know you went to daily injections and it helped keep your E2 in line as well as HCT.

 

[Vince]

Vince I may give 10mg day a try if EOD 18mg doesn't work. Very good suggestion. I know you went to daily injections and it helped keep your E2 in line as well as HCT.

My estradiol levels have always been good, no matter what protocol I'm on I've never needed an AI. I tried daily injections does to lower my HCT, so far it's working no blood donations for a year.

 

[1Draw]

My estradiol levels have always been good, no matter what protocol I'm on I've never needed an AI. I tried daily injections does to lower my HCT, so far it's working no blood donations for a year.

OK I've opted for .15ml or 30mg EOD and test in 6 weeks to see where my levels are. Figured this will give me total of around 100 mg a week where I was before.

Will report back results. I was hoping there were some high SHBG guys doing EOD with success in
maintaining decent HCT levels so, guess I'll give it a try.