Polycythemia? Tests Are In Range

[trt1]

Hi everyone,


1 began trt around September 2016 after a long battle with the symptoms of low T. Tried everything under the sun prior to no avail.




My basic question is, can a man have blood ranges all within rage on the CBC any still feel very unwell due to thicker more viscious blood? I always read about users donating when their blood is over 50 hematocrit and 17-18 hemoglobin but I appear to be quite unwell in the normal range when my hemoglobin is at 17 hematocrit at 47 and rbc's above 5.10. Could I be missing something?






My initial labs prior to TRT via labcorp
RBC 4.88
Hemoglobin 14.8
Hematocrit 44.7
Platelets 175
Test, serum 435
Estradiol Roche 21.1


the dr commented that my hematocrit was already quite high at 44.7, he asked where I lived (Denver 5280 feet) and asked if I do a lot of cardio. I do cycle quite a bit.



When I began via a mens health clinic they started me at 200 mg test cyp injected once a week with a 1mg tablet of anastrozole. This gave me great t values over 1200 but I dont think that much didnt jive with my body. and within 1-2 months my blood started feeling like sludge, I could feel my blood going up my carotid artery and through the veins is a slow sludge like manner. I could barely play basketball because I was constantly running out of breath.


I had labs done shortly after and the following showed up




RBC 5.35
Hemoglobin 16.3
Hematocrit 49.6
Platelets 198
Test, serum 1111
Estradiol Roche 16.2


I felt so poor that before I received the results I went to donate blood which I was deathly afraid of, due to my symptoms, I was positive from reading forums here that my blood was too thick. After the donation I felt the symptoms subside.


Recently I switched over to Primebody from Royal Mens, since I didn't like the fact that they compunded the Anastrozole into my test cypionate, I wanted the opportunity modulate the AI dosage as I see fit and wasnt aware if injecting an AI was ok.


I now take 120mg test cyp for Hallandale once a week and recently began having my thick blood type symptoms again so I donated whole blood and felt slightly better.



2 days passed and I began feeling unwell again with the thick blood symptoms, heart felt like it was pumping sludge. I took myself to the URGENT care. Thick blood type feeling in my veins especially in my neck making it feel almost stiff and slight difficulty breathing unable to do intense weights or cardio which is never an issue.


Towards the end of my week I begin to feel better with my symptoms subsiding. Then when I take another dose I feel the symptoms creeping back up.
This week I took only 50 mg on Monday and was planning to take the other 50 half on thursday but my neck stiffness and discomfort returned with a vengance on half the dosage.


I tried to donate blood but was denied due to a slightly high temperature. TOok labs yesterday which I got today and I was not feeling well that day either.


RBC 5.25
Hemoglobin 15.9
Hematocrit 47.7
Platelets 210
Test, serum 608
Estradiol Roche 28.7


The last 2 times I gave blood my hemoglobin was 17.2 & 17.1 respectively. I always overhydrate before these donations so my readings of hemo dont jive with my readings from labs.


Thanks for your time gents.


Regards,


Mike

 

[CoastWatcher]

Hi everyone,


1 began trt around September 2016 after a long battle with the symptoms of low T. Tried everything under the sun prior to no avail.




My basic question is, can a man have blood ranges all within rage on the CBC any still feel very unwell due to thicker more viscious blood? I always read about users donating when their blood is over 50 hematocrit and 17-18 hemoglobin but I appear to be quite unwell in the normal range when my hemoglobin is at 17 hematocrit at 47 and rbc's above 5.10. Could I be missing something?






My initial labs prior to TRT via labcorp
RBC 4.88
Hemoglobin 14.8
Hematocrit 44.7
Platelets 175
Test, serum 435
Estradiol Roche 21.1


the dr commented that my hematocrit was already quite high at 44.7, he asked where I lived (Denver 5280 feet) and asked if I do a lot of cardio. I do cycle quite a bit.



When I began via a mens health clinic they started me at 200 mg test cyp injected once a week with a 1mg tablet of anastrozole. This gave me great t values over 1200 but I dont think that much didnt jive with my body. and within 1-2 months my blood started feeling like sludge, I could feel my blood going up my carotid artery and through the veins is a slow sludge like manner. I could barely play basketball because I was constantly running out of breath.


I had labs done shortly after and the following showed up




RBC 5.35
Hemoglobin 16.3
Hematocrit 49.6
Platelets 198
Test, serum 1111
Estradiol Roche 16.2


I felt so poor that before I received the results I went to donate blood which I was deathly afraid of, due to my symptoms, I was positive from reading forums here that my blood was too thick. After the donation I felt the symptoms subside.


Recently I switched over to Primebody from Royal Mens, since I didn't like the fact that they compunded the Anastrozole into my test cypionate, I wanted the opportunity modulate the AI dosage as I see fit and wasnt aware if injecting an AI was ok.


I now take 120mg test cyp for Hallandale once a week and recently began having my thick blood type symptoms again so I donated whole blood and felt slightly better.



2 days passed and I began feeling unwell again with the thick blood symptoms, heart felt like it was pumping sludge. I took myself to the URGENT care. Thick blood type feeling in my veins especially in my neck making it feel almost stiff and slight difficulty breathing unable to do intense weights or cardio which is never an issue.


Towards the end of my week I begin to feel better with my symptoms subsiding. Then when I take another dose I feel the symptoms creeping back up.
This week I took only 50 mg on Monday and was planning to take the other 50 half on thursday but my neck stiffness and discomfort returned with a vengance on half the dosage.


I tried to donate blood but was denied due to a slightly high temperature. TOok labs yesterday which I got today and I was not feeling well that day either.


RBC 5.25
Hemoglobin 15.9
Hematocrit 47.7
Platelets 210
Test, serum 608
Estradiol Roche 28.7


The last 2 times I gave blood my hemoglobin was 17.2 & 17.1 respectively. I always overhydrate before these donations so my readings of hemo dont jive with my readings from labs.


Thanks for your time gents.


Regards,


Mike

Would you put the ranges for the respective lab tests in, please? What is your blood pressure like? Did it rise during the incidents you described?

 

[trt1]

Would you put the ranges for the respective lab tests in, please? What is your blood pressure like? Did it rise during the incidents you described?

My initial labs prior to TRT via labcorp


RBC 4.88 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin 14.8 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit 44.7 37.5-51
Platelets 175 150-379
Test, serum 435 348-1197
Estradiol Roche 21.1 28.7


RBC 5.35 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin 16.3 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit 49.6 37.5-51
Platelets 198 150-379
Test, serum 1111 348-1197
Estradiol Roche 16.2 28.7


RBC 5.25 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin 15.9 12.6-17.7
Hematocrit 47.7 37.5-51
Platelets 210 150-379
Test, serum 608 348-1197
Estradiol Roche 28.7




Blood pressure did rise during these incidents that lasted hours, usually they would subside a bit for a few hours when they did a small blood draw. My last blood draw reading was.
BP 129/78 pulse 87


I am a very accomplished cyclist and I eat very well. 36 years old, 190 lbs

 

[Vince Carter]

What I see there are your platelets getting very high in count, which is an oddity around here that I can remember because your H/H aren't that bad but those platelets are probably the culprit. There's been talk about that specific thing being or more importance than H/H which as I stated aren't bad. But I don't have answer for you on how to proeceed its a little new specific topic, platelets. You can try ~5g of Fish oil and/or daily aspirin therapy to see if you can thin and otherwise keep the platelets from sticking together.

 

[trt1]

I appreciate the reply, but why do you suggest platelets? My platelets are near the bottom end of the spectrum, where my hemoglobin and hematocrit and RBC's are approaching the upper limit threshold. Already taking aspirin and fish oil as a precaution.

I know towards the end of my weekly test that I improve and and when I had blood removed albeit small amounts I felt a bit of relief of the pressure on my circulatory system. I intent to do another phlebotomy in about a week to assist, but its quite frightening that the medication that gives you your life back in also putting your very health at risk and lab reports don't seem to assist me. Its more of a feeling of when I need to remove blood. I'm also trying to find the best dosage moving forward, I'm thinking 100 mg a week max and hopefully my level will stabilize at a lower threshold.

 

[Vince Carter]

I said platelets going up isn't talked about around here and yours are up, up, and up again...this is unusual. The number of Platelets are much more of a concern than HCT/HGB.

 

[Vince]

The frequency of the phlebotomy depends on individual factors, but most men can do one every two to three months to manage their hemoglobin this way. Sometimes red blood cell production normalizes without any specific reason. It is impossible to predict exactly who is more prone to developing polycythemia, but men who use higher doses, men with sleep apnea, and older men may have a higher incidence. It is important not to draw too much blood at once due to dramatic decreases in iron levels and ferritin that could cause fatigue.

Some doctors recommend the use of a baby aspirin (81 mg) a day and 2,000 to 4,000 mg a day of omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil capsules) to help lower blood viscosity and prevent heart attacks. These can be an important part of most people's health regimen but they are not alternatives for therapeutic phlebotomy if the patient has polycythemia and does not want to stop testosterone therapy. It is concerning that many people assume that they are completely free of stroke/heart attack risks by taking aspirin and omega-3 supplements when they have a high hematocrit.

Although some people may have more headaches induced by high blood pressure or get extremely red when they exercise, most do not feel any different when they have polycythemia. This does not make it any less dangerous.
From the thread.....https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...ia-Caused-by-Testosterone-Replacement-Therapy

 

[trt1]

I said platelets going up isn't talked about around here and yours are up, up, and up again...this is unusual. The number of Platelets are much more of a concern than HCT/HGB.

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Hey Vince, I think you are totally right regarding the platelets. I have donated whole blood 3 times in the last 2 months and still not relief, my last labs 2 days after my final donation were

RBC 4.59 x10E6/uL 4.14 - 5.80

Hemoglobin 13.8 g/dL 12.6 - 17.7

Hematocrit 41.7


I still suffer from some sludge like feeling in my veins which I can now only attribute to the increased platelet count. strange that going from 175 on the platelets reading prior to trt to 200 x10E3/uL 150 - 379 could make such a difference. Anyways i'm going to try to donate platelets sometime this week and see if I achieve any relief. If not I am going to have to temporarily abandon trt to regain my standard level of health back. Unable to workout intensely cardio or anaerobic due to the symptoms.



Before my 2nd donation my Hematocrit was 54 so I was convinced it was related to that. Then prior to the 3rd donation I was at 16.3 hemoglobin. So my 2nd donation brought down my HCT 5 roughly and the 2nd donation about 7. Now my RBC's, HCT and Hemo are all on the low side but I still feel that sludge like feeling in my blood mostly If i'm slightly dehydrated. I've brought my dose down from 120 mg cypionate once a week and 500 iu on HCG twice a week to 40 mg in 10 mg doses throughout the week and only 1 250 iu of hcg. Just trying to get back to some state of normalcy and then begin a low dose of 80 mg cypionate per week in 2 doses along with the hcg perhaps.

Have you or anyone else ever donated platelets and experienced relief of any symptoms afterwards?

Thanks

Mike​

 

[Vince]

Mike no, I never donated platelets. I do use high-dose fish oil and at times I did use baby aspirin, but my platelets became too low, always under 150.

 

[johndoesmith]

Post your full CBC results.

How did you donate blood 3 times in 2 months? They only allow you to go once every 56 days.

There is no medical condition that I am aware of that would cause a "sludge like feeling" in your veins. You can't feel your blood. You can feel your pulse and maybe blood pressure if it's really high or low. I think that's what you mean.

That much bloodletting is almost guaranteed to make you iron deficient, unless you have hemochromatosis.

What did the urgent care say when you reported feeling sludge in your veins? You skipped over what happened there.

Shortness of breath is no joke medically, it can have some serious causes. I'd highly highly recommend having this checked out and not just donating blood which isn't helping.

 

[trt1]

Here are my cbc labs that were performed after my final blood donation.
View attachment 3678



Urgent care just checked my cbc, and did many other tests, d-dimer, heart ultrasound, EKG. I might not have utilized the most elegant explanation but I when have a very high hematocrit/hemoglobin and higher platelet count I experience an very uncomfortable feeling throughout my body.

I am aware of the dangers and precautions to take when donating blood. the 2nd time I donated my count was at 54 for hct, that is not healthy, so I was sure that donating again would be ok. After my last donation my hematocrit and hemo dropped quite considerably so I have no intentions of donating again in the next 2 months.

The shortness of breath only occurred after a larger dose of test or hcg and as I have brought my dosage down the issues have become less pronounced. What I did notice is my only cbc value that continues to rise are my platelets, while hemoglobin, hct and rbc's have fluctuated withing the high/normal range. That level might be in the mid range of whats acceptable for a human but for me im experiencing symptoms associated with high platelets. When I felt my worst my platelets were at 210. i'm holding off on taking any more test due to the discomfort I feel, my symptoms are subsiding.

From what I ascertain my 120 mg a week dosage was just too much for my body, my hemo, hct and platelet levels were rising above what my body deems acceptable.

I hope to continue on my testosterone therapy at around 70-100 mg a week going forward.

 

[johndoesmith]

Here are my cbc labs that were performed after my final blood donation.
View attachment 3678



Urgent care just checked my cbc, and did many other tests, d-dimer, heart ultrasound, EKG. I might not have utilized the most elegant explanation but I when have a very high hematocrit/hemoglobin and higher platelet count I experience an very uncomfortable feeling throughout my body.

I am aware of the dangers and precautions to take when donating blood. the 2nd time I donated my count was at 54 for hct, that is not healthy, so I was sure that donating again would be ok. After my last donation my hematocrit and hemo dropped quite considerably so I have no intentions of donating again in the next 2 months.

The shortness of breath only occurred after a larger dose of test or hcg and as I have brought my dosage down the issues have become less pronounced. What I did notice is my only cbc value that continues to rise are my platelets, while hemoglobin, hct and rbc's have fluctuated withing the high/normal range. That level might be in the mid range of whats acceptable for a human but for me im experiencing symptoms associated with high platelets. When I felt my worst my platelets were at 210. i'm holding off on taking any more test due to the discomfort I feel, my symptoms are subsiding.

From what I ascertain my 120 mg a week dosage was just too much for my body, my hemo, hct and platelet levels were rising above what my body deems acceptable.

I hope to continue on my testosterone therapy at around 70-100 mg a week going forward.

Your attachment doesn't work. Your platelets are mid range. I don't know how anyone can consider that to be high.

 

[ratbag]

This thick blood feeling you describe I believe is your heart pumping stronger. This is what I noticed after I started testosterone. The heart is a muscle and testosterone makes it bigger and stronger. I still can feel my heartbeat at times. Other times I can feel some pulsating in various veins etc. I don't believe (as Vince said) you can feel thick blood. Your platelets are well in range despite them having gone up a little. I'm not familiar with the E2 by Roche is that the sensitive assay? 1mg anastrozle seems like a lot.