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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Side Effect Management
Personal experiences with both HCG Monotherapy and TRT?
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<blockquote data-quote="newguy128" data-source="post: 73746" data-attributes="member: 14517"><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">**I'll start nandrolone soon, mainly for this reason. I'll let you know how it goes.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. I look forward to your results. I doubt the VA would ever entertain this protocol. I presume you have a private Doc that may entertain prescribing this for the reasons given or will you procure this by other means?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">**Since I'll be doing an equal amount of TCyp with nandrolone, there's no way I'll be doing 200mg of ND. If things work out extremely well as I go, I might beef up dosages.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. So what dose will you be starting with, 100mgs Deca a week? Less is usually best, unless competing in bodybuilding.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">**I guess it depends on what your clinic requested, but they pretty much have to give you, at least, 2 basic CBCs and chem panels a year. Some of the more “fringe” labs that we typically need are likely up to the discretion of the PC.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p>R. Testosterone (F&T): (They usually do this one, but refused to do this for me and didn't schedule it in my next lab </p><p> draw).</p><p>Estradiol Sensitive: (VA doesn't list this lab, but should use this test as it is more accurate than the regular estradiol </p><p> lab they do).</p><p>CBC W/Differential: (I think they scheduled this one in my next lab)?</p><p>CMP-14: (VA refused this one, and didn't list this lab in my next lab draw)?</p><p>Lipid Panel: (VA normally does this lab, but not at my next scheduled lab draw)?</p><p>IGF-1: (VA doesn't list this lab either).</p><p>Prolactin: (VA did this lab previously. They know my prolactin is high, but they refused to add this to my current and </p><p> next labs. Not have the attempted to provide any meds for this).</p><p>A1a: (They did this lab previously and know it is high, but refused to schedule it on my current and future labs. Nor </p><p> would they write me a script for Metformin)?</p><p>PSA: (They always do this lab). But not this time, nor on my next scheduled labs)?</p><p>DHEA-S: (The VA has done this lab several times previously, but refused to do it this time nor in my next labs)? </p><p>THS: (The VA refused to do this one when I requested it, but added it to my next lab draw).</p><p>SHBG: (The VA refused to do this lab, although they have done this one previously)?</p><p></p><p>The only labs they scheduled for July was CBC & Thyroid (whatever that means-TSH)? As there are several other Thyroid tests available to accurately detect any potential thyroid issues). Like: T3 and T4, to get a full REAL picture of thyroid should be:TSH, T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3 (not to many people get this one done-not has the VA ever done this lab for me). Not sure if it is even available w/the VA?</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I have learned to not even mention what you're doing with off-label meds to VA docs. I've had certain ones threaten to pull me off everything due to trying out Cytomel. Lesson learned. You have to work the system when you have what we have, at the VA. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. Have to agree at this point, sometimes being honest and up front hoping to get a proper diagnosis obviously can be to your detriment when dealing with the VA's rigid policies and attitude. Did the Cytomel work for you?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">**I wouldn't have either. I would not tell them anything I was up to, especially stuff we find on this board/online. The most I will do is cut back on some things so as to not set off any unusual lab results. I'm not giving them any reason, whatsoever, to alter what they already provide.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. Sad, but true, you have to play the VA-BS game in order to get what you want or need.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">**I have never had, nor I have I ever heard of, and interaction with an Endo that was positive for people like us. Never. Avoid them like the plague. Especially at the VA.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. Funny thing is I eluded something similar to this point to my VA nurse and she looked at me with those WTF are you talking about eyes? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /> Lol. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I remember about 10-15 years ago spending a whole day traveling back & forth to a VA facility 300+ miles away to see a VA Endo about acquiring an anti-estrogen for high estrogen levels I had. (Mid-age male). AI's didn't exist at the time and again, they won't prescribe stuff for off-label use anyways. Only for female breast cancer patients. But I didn't know this at the time? That was the last time I saw a VA Endo and justly so. Why bother if you know whatever it is you want or need is considered "Off-Label use" to the VA?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The Endo made me feel as if I was asking for a script of pain killers or something and ultimately wouldn't prescribe an anti-estrogen because of the off label use. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Again, I'm not sure what borderline-anything will get you at the VA. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. True, but more specifically, my A1a labs told me I was pre-diabetic.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">You paid your clinic to write you a script or you had to pay for the Metformin out of pocket?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. I paid my TRT clinic $25 to write me a script for Metformin, as are all their scripts they write or call in. The script itself was filled for no cost by Publix because I presume the med is so cheap to produce and they do that as a service for the general public who can't afford health insurance, which I think is pretty cool! Which is another reason the VA didn't make me too happy because of this fact and the fact they knew I am pre-diabetic. WTF again? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Do you have a normal doc-patient relationship with a non-VA clinic or are you just using one of these online/phone situations like a lot of guys on this site?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">R. My relationship with my TRT clinic (Defy Medical) is done over the phone for consults and online to make various payments for their services. Which suits me fine as I have no vehicle anyway to get there. They offer in clinic services for those that are local and have transportation to their office in Tampa, Fl.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">They are pretty thorough with labs, moreso than the VA is. They are more progressive than the VA is, at least they will listen to your symptoms as part of the exam/evaluation/diagnosis, etc. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">They have you do a complete physical with your private or VA Doc (which the VA surprisingly did)! And they understand if you start talking about AI, anti-estrogens, or talk about off label items to help normalize various labs. They don't go into panic mode when a lab is abnormal and tell you to stop all meds/supps because they don't understand, etc., etc. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I can't imagine telling a TRT patient to stop his TRT and HCG injections or anti-estrogens for a month because various labs were elevated...WTF? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite4" alt=":mad:" title="Mad :mad:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":mad:" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">There is a TRT clinic in my town I could see with fair prices...$100 a month for all supplies. But then I would have to go through the initial expenses again of the initial physical, labs, initial doctor consult fees, etc. Doesn't make much sense financially or otherwise, other than maybe convenience?</span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #333333"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">So for now the online thing with Defy is sufficient. I got my 2nd Test Cyp script for $41.45 + $25 to call in my script at Walgreen's w/a goodrx coupon. Normally a 10ml, 200mg/ml Test Cyp vial would cost me $129.00 through my TRT clinics compounding pharmacy. So I save some money w/the goodrx coupon at Walgreen's (Watson Test Cyp-10ml/200mg/ml vial).</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="newguy128, post: 73746, member: 14517"] [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]**I'll start nandrolone soon, mainly for this reason. I'll let you know how it goes. R. I look forward to your results. I doubt the VA would ever entertain this protocol. I presume you have a private Doc that may entertain prescribing this for the reasons given or will you procure this by other means? [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]**Since I'll be doing an equal amount of TCyp with nandrolone, there's no way I'll be doing 200mg of ND. If things work out extremely well as I go, I might beef up dosages. R. So what dose will you be starting with, 100mgs Deca a week? Less is usually best, unless competing in bodybuilding. [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]**I guess it depends on what your clinic requested, but they pretty much have to give you, at least, 2 basic CBCs and chem panels a year. Some of the more “fringe” labs that we typically need are likely up to the discretion of the PC.[/FONT][/COLOR] [/FONT][/COLOR] R. Testosterone (F&T): (They usually do this one, but refused to do this for me and didn't schedule it in my next lab draw). Estradiol Sensitive: (VA doesn't list this lab, but should use this test as it is more accurate than the regular estradiol lab they do). CBC W/Differential: (I think they scheduled this one in my next lab)? CMP-14: (VA refused this one, and didn't list this lab in my next lab draw)? Lipid Panel: (VA normally does this lab, but not at my next scheduled lab draw)? IGF-1: (VA doesn't list this lab either). Prolactin: (VA did this lab previously. They know my prolactin is high, but they refused to add this to my current and next labs. Not have the attempted to provide any meds for this). A1a: (They did this lab previously and know it is high, but refused to schedule it on my current and future labs. Nor would they write me a script for Metformin)? PSA: (They always do this lab). But not this time, nor on my next scheduled labs)? DHEA-S: (The VA has done this lab several times previously, but refused to do it this time nor in my next labs)? THS: (The VA refused to do this one when I requested it, but added it to my next lab draw). SHBG: (The VA refused to do this lab, although they have done this one previously)? The only labs they scheduled for July was CBC & Thyroid (whatever that means-TSH)? As there are several other Thyroid tests available to accurately detect any potential thyroid issues). Like: T3 and T4, to get a full REAL picture of thyroid should be:TSH, T3, T4, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3 (not to many people get this one done-not has the VA ever done this lab for me). Not sure if it is even available w/the VA? [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]I have learned to not even mention what you're doing with off-label meds to VA docs. I've had certain ones threaten to pull me off everything due to trying out Cytomel. Lesson learned. You have to work the system when you have what we have, at the VA. R. Have to agree at this point, sometimes being honest and up front hoping to get a proper diagnosis obviously can be to your detriment when dealing with the VA's rigid policies and attitude. Did the Cytomel work for you? [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]**I wouldn't have either. I would not tell them anything I was up to, especially stuff we find on this board/online. The most I will do is cut back on some things so as to not set off any unusual lab results. I'm not giving them any reason, whatsoever, to alter what they already provide. R. Sad, but true, you have to play the VA-BS game in order to get what you want or need. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]**I have never had, nor I have I ever heard of, and interaction with an Endo that was positive for people like us. Never. Avoid them like the plague. Especially at the VA. R. Funny thing is I eluded something similar to this point to my VA nurse and she looked at me with those WTF are you talking about eyes? :confused: Lol. I remember about 10-15 years ago spending a whole day traveling back & forth to a VA facility 300+ miles away to see a VA Endo about acquiring an anti-estrogen for high estrogen levels I had. (Mid-age male). AI's didn't exist at the time and again, they won't prescribe stuff for off-label use anyways. Only for female breast cancer patients. But I didn't know this at the time? That was the last time I saw a VA Endo and justly so. Why bother if you know whatever it is you want or need is considered "Off-Label use" to the VA? The Endo made me feel as if I was asking for a script of pain killers or something and ultimately wouldn't prescribe an anti-estrogen because of the off label use. :confused: [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Again, I'm not sure what borderline-anything will get you at the VA. R. True, but more specifically, my A1a labs told me I was pre-diabetic. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]You paid your clinic to write you a script or you had to pay for the Metformin out of pocket? R. I paid my TRT clinic $25 to write me a script for Metformin, as are all their scripts they write or call in. The script itself was filled for no cost by Publix because I presume the med is so cheap to produce and they do that as a service for the general public who can't afford health insurance, which I think is pretty cool! Which is another reason the VA didn't make me too happy because of this fact and the fact they knew I am pre-diabetic. WTF again? :confused: [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Do you have a normal doc-patient relationship with a non-VA clinic or are you just using one of these online/phone situations like a lot of guys on this site? R. My relationship with my TRT clinic (Defy Medical) is done over the phone for consults and online to make various payments for their services. Which suits me fine as I have no vehicle anyway to get there. They offer in clinic services for those that are local and have transportation to their office in Tampa, Fl. They are pretty thorough with labs, moreso than the VA is. They are more progressive than the VA is, at least they will listen to your symptoms as part of the exam/evaluation/diagnosis, etc. They have you do a complete physical with your private or VA Doc (which the VA surprisingly did)! And they understand if you start talking about AI, anti-estrogens, or talk about off label items to help normalize various labs. They don't go into panic mode when a lab is abnormal and tell you to stop all meds/supps because they don't understand, etc., etc. I can't imagine telling a TRT patient to stop his TRT and HCG injections or anti-estrogens for a month because various labs were elevated...WTF? :(:mad::confused: There is a TRT clinic in my town I could see with fair prices...$100 a month for all supplies. But then I would have to go through the initial expenses again of the initial physical, labs, initial doctor consult fees, etc. Doesn't make much sense financially or otherwise, other than maybe convenience? So for now the online thing with Defy is sufficient. I got my 2nd Test Cyp script for $41.45 + $25 to call in my script at Walgreen's w/a goodrx coupon. Normally a 10ml, 200mg/ml Test Cyp vial would cost me $129.00 through my TRT clinics compounding pharmacy. So I save some money w/the goodrx coupon at Walgreen's (Watson Test Cyp-10ml/200mg/ml vial).[/FONT][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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Personal experiences with both HCG Monotherapy and TRT?
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