Permamently crashed E2 due to Arimidex... I feel miserable

[dimebag]

Hello everbody,
to make a long story short, I ended up on TRT because I abused steroids in the past and never fully recovered. My final protocol asked for 50mg Test E twice weekly which got my TT up to ~650ng (2 days after injection) and my E2 came back @ 40pg. My doc put me on Arimidex 0.5mg with every Test shot. After about one month I started to feel like crap and still do until today (began taking Arimidex in autumn 2017). My E2 was <5pg and we stoppped the AI. 2 months later we tested again and E2 was 10pg. We upped the dose to 150mg/week and my E2 didn't change. We attribute all of my symptoms to hypoestrogenism: joint pain, stiff neck, extremely fatigued, feeling weak, dry eyes, frequent urination, I lost 15kg (~30lbs) in 8 months due to the inability to work out (I almost faint doing squats, get dizzy, run out of breath easily), tachycardia, heart palpitations, headaches, bloated belly, no morning wood since then, getting angry really fast. I'm at loss and I never felt so desperate in my life
So far we ruled out MI, embolism, stress test ended at 175W (pulse was >190bpm, RR 210/100), ALT/AST are normal.
Thanks in advance, guys

 

[nurselyfe]

any current E2 labs?

 

[dimebag]

Latest labs from 3 weeks ago showed E2 @ 12pg and TT 700ng. All E2 tests are non-sensitive.

 

[nurselyfe]

Latest labs from 3 weeks ago showed E2 @ 12pg and TT 700ng. All E2 tests are non-sensitive.

Are you taking any other medications or herbs/supplements?

I know it is difficult but you may want to get a sensitive test. Have you and your provider talked about raising your T even more to stimulate conversion to estrogen?

700ng/dL is high to some providers and mid range to others. Depends on your provider and their own view - unfortunately they call the shots no pun intended.

 

[Systemlord]

Curious, where is your SHBG at currently?

 

[dimebag]

Last Shbg was ~22nmol with TT 650ng. My doc never heard of LC/MS testing so he rejected the idea. He suggested to start Tamoxifen but I read that one of its metabolites is a strong AI.

 

[Systemlord]

Last Shbg was ~22nmol with TT 650ng. My doc never heard of LC/MS testing so he rejected the idea. He suggested to start Tamoxifen but I read that one of its metabolites is a strong AI.

Interesting because it's the new standard for E2 testing in males undergoing TRT, it's in the updated guidelines your doctor clearly doesn't follow. It doesn't sound like your doctor has a open mind, this means he can't ever learn new things and will continue doing things wrong.

You doctors thinking, your the patient and what the hell could you know. You need the type of doctor who stays up to date on current events.

 

[CoastWatcher]

On a practical level, you can obtain a sensitive e2 test via www.discountedlabs.com. All bloodwork is run through LabCorp. Many of us use it.

The comments about your doctor are appropriate. If the LC, MS/MS estradiol test was new to him, he may not be the physician to help you through this.

 

[nurselyfe]

Interesting because it's the new standard for E2 testing in males undergoing TRT, it's in the updated guidelines your doctor clearly doesn't follow. It doesn't sound like your doctor has a open mind, this means he can't ever learn new things and will continue doing things wrong.

You doctors thinking, your the patient and what the hell could you know. You need the type of doctor who stays up to date on current events.

Not being facetious at all, where did you see these current updated guidelines as I'd like to show this to my urologist

 

[Will Brink]

Last Shbg was ~22nmol with TT 650ng. My doc never heard of LC/MS testing so he rejected the idea. He suggested to start Tamoxifen but I read that one of its metabolites is a strong AI.

Ignorance + arrogance makes for poor medicine, and it all too common among MDs in particular. I don't expect them to know everything - as that's not possible - but I expect them to be open minded and be willing to look into things when presented with new info/ideas.

 

[Systemlord]

Not being facetious at all, where did you see these current updated guidelines as I'd like to show this to my urologist

It was actually urologist guidelines and thought I save the link, still trying to find it. It mention the use of AI's together with HCG and the standard use of LC/MS/MS testing.

 

[Saul]

I don't expect them to know everything - as that's not possible - but I expect them to be open minded and be willing to look into things when presented with new info/ideas.

That is a good point. I can't fault a doctor for not knowing everything or having different view, but they should be willing to look at other options and update their thoughts when improvements are available.

 

[Vitamin_C]

You did not permanently crash your E2, but recovery time after a crash differs from person to person. When I lowered my E2 below 10, it took a good 2 months before it was back in the 20's and then another month or two in that range to start feeling better. When my night sweats started going away, I knew I was in the clear.

 

[Weasel]

It's going to take time. Keep doing what you are doing, ride it out, and never touch an AI again. You didn't need one in the first place.

 

[nurselyfe]

It was actually urologist guidelines and thought I save the link, still trying to find it. It mention the use of AI's together with HCG and the standard use of LC/MS/MS testing.

This would be great if you could find it.


To the OP, the others are right. There's no way to permanently crash your E2. Your body will recover as long as your T production is high enough. I would get the LC/MS E2 testing to see where you're really at.

 

[lowe2sucks]

is it possible that ex steroid users can't produce enough e2 or their e2 doesn't work at receptor even on trt? I notice a lot of ex steroid users can't recover from crashed e2 me myself have this problem aswell. possible not metabolizing e2 properly?

 

[madman]

is it possible that ex steroid users can't produce enough e2 or their e2 doesn't work at receptor even on trt? I notice a lot of ex steroid users can't recover from crashed e2 me myself have this problem aswell. possible not metabolizing e2 properly?

I know Dr. Crisler and Dr Mcclain have stated that ex steroid users tend to need higher doses of trt to be effective.

As far as you asking "is it possible that ex steroid users can't produce enough e2 or their e2 doesn't work at receptor even on trt?".....highly doubtful as many men who have previously used/abused testosterone in high doses that are now on trt do well.

Sure there are cases of men who may have issues related to crashed estradiol levels due to overuse/misuse of aromatase ihibitors but doubtful it would be permanent.....may take longer than others to recover from low e2 as every individual is different and there are other factors involved as to why one may not be responding to trt.

 

[Pongo]

Did bloods after first 3 months and E2 was 67, bought some Arimidex and thought 0.25mg twice a week would be a good start. 2 months later got very painful joints (shoulders and knuckles) felt like they were made of bamboo, did bloods and was in single figures 8.7 - OUCH crashed E2!! Took 2 months of taking no Arimidex to get back to normal & and start being pain-free. I now take 0.25mg once a week and skip taking Arimidex every 4th week, this keeps me at 28-35 which feels good to me. Some people are very sensitive to Arimidex and i'm one of those people. Took 2 full months to recover from the pain and 2 more months to mentally/physically feel good again. Be patient

 

[glob]

Hello everbody,
to make a long story short, I ended up on TRT because I abused steroids in the past and never fully recovered. My final protocol asked for 50mg Test E twice weekly which got my TT up to ~650ng (2 days after injection) and my E2 came back @ 40pg. My doc put me on Arimidex 0.5mg with every Test shot. After about one month I started to feel like crap and still do until today (began taking Arimidex in autumn 2017). My E2 was <5pg and we stoppped the AI. 2 months later we tested again and E2 was 10pg. We upped the dose to 150mg/week and my E2 didn't change. We attribute all of my symptoms to hypoestrogenism: joint pain, stiff neck, extremely fatigued, feeling weak, dry eyes, frequent urination, I lost 15kg (~30lbs) in 8 months due to the inability to work out (I almost faint doing squats, get dizzy, run out of breath easily), tachycardia, heart palpitations, headaches, bloated belly, no morning wood since then, getting angry really fast. I'm at loss and I never felt so desperate in my life
So far we ruled out MI, embolism, stress test ended at 175W (pulse was >190bpm, RR 210/100), ALT/AST are normal.
Thanks in advance, guys

Hey men, I’ve the same issue. Do you have any update to your situation?

 

[Gman86]

For u guys that have crashed ur E2, do u notice any differences in the oiliness of ur skin? Specifically the face I’m curious about. Wondering if when ur E2 is very low if oiliness if the skin decreases