oral DHEA causes depression

[lowe2sucks]

Ive tried to supplement dhea to raise supressed levels on trt.. Ive noticed this pattern: everytime i start to take DHEA first days or maybe even couple days I feel ok then it makes me really depressed. Ive tried only oral OTC version.. I ordered DHEA cream to try it (hopefully it wont make me depressed)? anyone here on T without HCG doesnt supplement DHEA? I wonder if its a must as it has neuroprotective abilities from what ive read.

 

[Vince]

Why are you supplementing with dhea, are your levels low? How much are you using.

 

[lowe2sucks]

50mgs orally every day
ive heard dr mark gordon and dr crisler recommends to supplement pregnenolone and dhea on trt as they drop

 

[Vince Carter]

That oral delivery it aromatizes in the liver very very easily. Transdermal can be better, as well as the "micronized" oral capsules. Or even sublingual. But guaranteed your Estrogen is skyrocketing, happened to me before I was on Test. I'd take 50-100mg in the morning and within hours I was a real mess...angry, aggitated, emotional. I'd stop it and 24hrs later be relatively normal again.
And as Vince said...don't use it unless your testing low on DHEA. Your body may be telling you that you don't need it. Also try much lower doses...10/15/25mg daily.

 

[lowe2sucks]

did you notice a difference between td and the otc oral version? lets say 25 mg daily.. oral we know the result - makes you feel like you said agitated and angry.. (by the way it also makes me feel more anhedonic kinda).. i ordered life flo DHEA its 15 mg per pump.. i will definitely start with 1 pump

 

[Vince Carter]

That lifeflo is relatively low dosed but dispenses a huge dolop of goo that will make you feel deeply moisturized. I didn't like it. You'll want to avoid their "DHEA for men" this version delivers 30mg but includes Saw Palmetto...a known Androgen, BLOCKER.

There are better ways to get DHEA that LifeFlo.

 

[captain]

Dr. Crisler is selling DHEA OTC here if anyone would like to try.http://www.allthingsmale.com/community/threads/dhea-sublingual-troches-now-available-otc.27070/

 

[lowe2sucks]

That lifeflo is relatively low dosed but dispenses a huge dolop of goo that will make you feel deeply moisturized. I didn't like it. You'll want to avoid their "DHEA for men" this version delivers 30mg but includes Saw Palmetto...a known Androgen, BLOCKER.

There are better ways to get DHEA that LifeFlo.

yeah i saw that version with saw palmetto too. didnt order that though. just regular dhea, im too afraid to even touch saw palmetto and other dht inhibitors

 

[Vince]

I wouldn't use dhea unless labs levels are low.

 

[lowe2sucks]

It seems like DHEA has some aromatase inhibing effect:
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/164/2/161.full.pdf
"...Since aromatase is one of the key enzymes for the downstream conversion of DHEA via delta-4 steroids to estrogens, the modulation of the aromatase activity by DHEA and the typical macrophage activator, LPS, were investigated. DHEA (1µM) significantly inhibited aromatase activity (Fig. 7). In the presence of LPS, DHEA was unable to inhibit aromatase activity. Taken together, these results indicate that LPS counteracts the inhibitory action of DHEA on aromatase under these conditions."

 

[lowe2sucks]

what do you guys think about this? seems like everybody says dhea raised their estrogen

 

[Vince Carter]

Im not buying the study direct reports form guys seem to contradict but then IMHO, DHEA is like, Anastrozole, it's over "prescribed"/Over-Dosed, for most guys.

 

[FeelingLost]

what do you guys think about this? seems like everybody says dhea raised their estrogen

I am pretty sure DHEA raised my E2 over the top.
I also read the dr mark gordon and dr crisler recommendation to supplement pregnenolone and dhea on trt as they drop alot after age 30.
So I bought them. Have not tried the pregnenolone yet.

My high E2 side effect happened overnight. I stopped and waited for bloodwork to check my DHEA. I am 63yo and my DHEA was 330. No more DHEA supplements for me. I can't thank Vince here on the forum enough for pointing this can be tested.

 

[lowe2sucks]

In addition to its affinity for the androgen receptor, DHEA has also been found to bind to and activate the ERα and ERβestrogen receptors with K[SUB]i[/SUB] values of 1.1 μM and 0.5 μM, respectively, and EC[SUB]50[/SUB] values of >1 μM and 200 nM, respectively. Though it was found to be a partial agonist of the ERα with a maximal efficacy of 30–70%, the concentrations required for this degree of activation make it unlikely that the activity of DHEA at this receptor is physiologically meaningful. Remarkably however, DHEA acts as a full agonist of the ERβ with a maximal response similar to or actually slightly greater than that of estradiol, and its levels in circulation and local tissues in the human body are high enough to activate the receptor to the same degree as that seen with circulating estradiol levels at somewhat higher than their maximal, non-ovulatory concentrations; indeed, when combined with estradiol with both at levels equivalent to those of their physiological concentrations, overall activation of the ERβ was doubled. As such, it has been proposed that DHEA may be an important and potentially major endogenous estrogen in the body.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][35]
Source: [/SUP]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone

So basically DHEA also activated estrogen receptor beta with response similar or slightly greater then estradiol thats why some folks report high e2 symptoms even without that big of an e2 increase on labs.. since it agonizes estrogen receptor beta

 

[lowe2sucks]

I am pretty sure DHEA raised my E2 over the top.
I also read the dr mark gordon and dr crisler recommendation to supplement pregnenolone and dhea on trt as they drop alot after age 30.
So I bought them. Have not tried the pregnenolone yet.

My high E2 side effect happened overnight. I stopped and waited for bloodwork to check my DHEA. I am 63yo and my DHEA was 330. No more DHEA supplements for me. I can't thank Vince here on the forum enough for pointing this can me tested.

Do you mind if I ask you what high e2 side effect did you experience?

 

[CoastWatcher]

An anecdotal report.

Here in Canada DHEA requires a prescription, it's a controlled substance. In my doctor's practice that means she, at least in theory, knows who has added it to their protocol and by how much. She has said that with very few exceptions those that use it see an increase in estradiol - some to the point it needs to be addressed with an AI introduction/doseage increase. When I raised the question of using it two years ago she resisted since my levels were in the upper sixty-five percent of our Canadian reference range; I did not pursue it.

Of course, some men sail along, never hitting a bump on the e2 highway, and some men have levels in the cellar that clearly suggest a need.

 

[lowe2sucks]

An anecdotal report.

Here in Canada DHEA requires a prescription, it's a controlled substance. In my doctor's practice that means she, at least in theory, knows who has added it to their protocol and by how much. She has said that with very few exceptions those that use it see an increase in estradiol - some to the point it needs to be addressed with an AI introduction/doseage increase. When I raised the question of using it two years ago she resisted since my levels were in the upper sixty-five percent of our Canadian reference range; I did not pursue it.

Of course, some men sail along, never hitting a bump on the e2 highway, and some men have levels in the cellar that clearly suggest a need.

may I ask you what high e2 sypmtoms did you experience when taking DHEA? I am just curious

 

[CoastWatcher]

may I ask you what high e2 sypmtoms did you experience when taking DHEA? I am just curious

I never did take it, as noted, my doctor felt it wasn't needed given my levels, and it is available only with a prescription in Canada. My estradiol once reached 55 on the sensitive test. I was feeling tired, heavy, and lethargic. I dealt with it by moving to daily injections. E2 slipped into one,ace and I've never needed an AI.

 

[FeelingLost]

Do you mind if I ask you what high e2 side effect did you experience?

loss of all libedo, no morning wood. Burn thru a tissue box(crying) while watching The Voice on TV.

I am still not over the high E2. My PCP kind of freaked out over my current bloods and wants me to go to a urologist.
I forgt to tell him I was messing around with supplements on the side BIG mistake on my part NEVER again.



It probably doesn't help my prolactin is also ski high. I need to go research that and its side effects other than man boobs.

 

[Gene Devine]

I've done a lot of research on DHEA and Pregnenolone over the years so it's rather simple; if your DHEA-S levels are low (meaning not below the reference range) but low either due to TRT of age related decline it's best to supplement to get levels to the higher end of the reference range.

DHEA, can aroamatase and for some men even a small dose like 50 mg daily can increase E2 but it's a rare even and takes some time for those serum concentraton levels to rise anyways.

I take 25 mg of DHEA and 50 mg of Pregnenolone daily to "back-fill" my pathways while on TRT and my DHEA-S levels are always over the reference range LOL but I have no neg sides whatsoever so Dr. Crisler and I want to keep it just that way!