Optimum HCG dosage...

[olddawg]

Presently on TD Gel @ approx 70mg daily. Will start HCG SQ injections at 100iu daily. Curious as to what parameters others have utilized to determine the optimum dosage of HCT over the long haul. My intent is to reactivate HPTA, which should add baseline Testosterone and hopefully allow for reduction of exogenous TD Gel. Definitely not wanting to overstimulate/desensitize leydig cells.
Appreciate any and all of your constructive wisdom...Roy

 

[Re-Ride]

Roy, There is no such thing as an "optimum hCG dosage" You are not going to "reactivate HPTA"

Your fear of "overestimation/desensitization" is an old web myth

Respect for your current and future health dictates that you seek qualified medical care. If you do not do that now you later find the cost of not doing so to be higher than you ever imagined.

 

[JPB]

HCG can ramp up aromatase action greatly in some individuals. The resulting rise in estrogen if not managed, can result in lower Total and Free T. Rarely does it result in higher T levels for someone already on TRT.

 

[CoastWatcher]

It does sound as if you are driving in the dark, without headlights, relying on an outdated map. Are you self-directing your protocol? While it is your body, and I respect that, it isn't wise to be undertaking this protocol without a skilled doctor.

 

[Vince]

Most use around 1000iu a week, which works out to be 500iu x 2 , 350iu x 3 or about 150iu x 7. Some even use less.

 

[Vince Carter]

HCG dosing is all over place, I see 100iu daily, 250 EOD, 500 2XW. I woulnd't recommend and see no reason to go beyond 1000iu (total) per week. As stated there is (can be) an aggravating factor of E conversion that happens in the testes, that you have to keep in mind. AIs (if needed) are less effective on the E produced in the testes because of the environment of the testes.

 

[Vince]

I inject 500iu every 3 1/2 days - Dr Saya - Quantitative Serum hCG Case Study https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6133-Dr-Saya-Quantitative-Serum-hCG-Case-Study

 

[olddawg]

Hi Re-Ride. You are correct, I used the wrong terminology...had read where some others had used that analogy to describe the effects of HCG simulating the LH signal and therefore tricking the testes to again manufacture testosterone. Have since read that the "desensitazation" hypothesis was likely a result of the system eventually downregulating in response to excess T.
As for optimum HCG dosage, I have read where many on TD Gel have varied their dosage and eventually settled on a certain amount...but have yet to read what parameters they used. Was it labs, sexual function, overall well being, or a combination thereof? Thanks...Roy

 

[olddawg]

Hi JPB. In the past I have only done TD Gel by itself. TT would rise to acceptable levels (600-700) then drop below 300 and ED would return. E2 remained below normal, likely because SHBG was over 70. Would up TD Gel dosage and the roller coaster ride would ensue. During all of this I was fighting polycythemia, which would likely be exacerbated by switching to injections. Hoping that HCG will add enough test that I can reduce TD Gel and therefore reduce the problem with polycythemia. It is my understanding (Dr agrees) that E2 is easier to control than SHBG. My last labs (5 wks post TRT startup) indicate that TT of 770, SHBG 70, E2 29(Standard Assay), FT 1.5%...is likely a reasonable compromise for me...ED was minimal. Will add HCG, retest in 4-6 wks...time will tell. Thanks...Roy

 

[olddawg]

Hi CoastWatcher. Driving in the dark? Kinda, sorta!? Have worked with a Urologist and an "ED Specialist" for the past 3 1/2 yrs...neither of them was worth 2 cents. Local Endo will not even prescribe TRT as my TT 370 is "within range"!? Finally got family Dr to work with me. He is willing to do whatever he can to get covered through Medicare...that in itself is a plus! He is willing to proceed in small increments so long as we stay within acceptable ranges. I am doing all the research I can to help...sites like this provide tons of information. We even considered clomid but decided against it as my SHBG is already high.
But...overall we are proceeding on a guarded guinea pig protocol...with the understanding that if we can't safely attain a reasonable hormonal balance and sexual function, then we will terminate the program.
As for skilled doctors...there aren't any that I am aware of within my area that will even work with me because my TT is within range =(

 

[olddawg]

Hi Vince. Thanks for the info. Mainly curious as to "what parameters" these individuals relied on to settle on a certain dosage. Also curious if TD Gel patients have used an under 100iu daily dosage of HCG with any success? Presently anxious for HCG to be delivered so I can get started. Protocol for startup is 100iu daily...if labs are favorable I may reduce dosage, especially if E2 gets elevated. Take care...Roy

 

[olddawg]

Hi Vince Carter. Thanks for the info about limited control of E produced in the testes...was not aware of that. Fortunately my normal E2 level is somewhat low so hopefully it will not increase beyond a controllable level. Will likely try below 100iu daily dosage down the road. Am struggling with rather severe ED issues so resolving that is my primary focus. Had a favorable two week period before HPTA shutdown after this TRT startup...which gives me hope.=) Thanks again for your input...Roy

 

[olddawg]

Hi again Vince. Great article/Case-Study about HCG dosage! After going back over pre-startup labs I may have to reconsider dosage protocol. Through holistic supplements I was able to increase my TT from 115-200 range to TT370, but LH 7.9 indicates system was pushing hard just to attain that level. Will likely require higher dosage of HCG to generate testical generated testosterone...hmmm!? Talk with Dr and go from there...time will tell. Anyway, thanks again...Roy

 

[CoastWatcher]

Hi CoastWatcher. Driving in the dark? Kinda, sorta!? Have worked with a Urologist and an "ED Specialist" for the past 3 1/2 yrs...neither of them was worth 2 cents. Local Endo will not even prescribe TRT as my TT 370 is "within range"!? Finally got family Dr to work with me. He is willing to do whatever he can to get covered through Medicare...that in itself is a plus! He is willing to proceed in small increments so long as we stay within acceptable ranges. I am doing all the research I can to help...sites like this provide tons of information. We even considered clomid but decided against it as my SHBG is already high.
But...overall we are proceeding on a guarded guinea pig protocol...with the understanding that if we can't safely attain a reasonable hormonal balance and sexual function, then we will terminate the program.
As for skilled doctors...there aren't any that I am aware of within my area that will even work with me because my TT is within range =(

Defymedical.com. Visit their site and call them. With two of the most skilled doctors in the field of androgen replacement on the medical staff, their telemed model works for many of our members (I am not a patient, but have terrific respect for them). Search this site for "Justin Saya", Defy's medical director. He contributes here and you can get a feel for his knowledge. He could be your doctor. It would be worth it.

 

[Vince]

olddawg, personally I believe if you are going to use testosterone, injecting T along with HCG every 3 1/2 days is the best way to go.

 

[Re-Ride]

Yes, work with Defy! Not an expert . Guessing your self assessment is correct on being heavily primary hypogonatic. There may still be other benefits derived from hCG such as stimulating LH receptors other than the leydig.

 

[olddawg]

Thanks CoastWatcher! Will check it out...appreciate the reference and recommendation. Have read a few articles/commentaries by Justin Saya...seems to be tuned into what is and isn't. Again...thank you sir...Roy

 

[olddawg]

Vince...may eventually try that protocol! Since polycythemia is usually worse with injections I am hesitant to go there until I find reasonable control with TD Gel. Got so bad back in Sept that I had to terminate TRT, see a Hematologist to rule out Polycythemia Vera. 3 blood donations and one therapeutic phlebotomy later I was back down to manageable blood count levels. Eligible for another blood donation later this month, then another CBC lab to see how I am doing. Juggling hormones is definitely interesting! LOL! Glad you are doing well with your program...Roy

 

[olddawg]

Re-Ride...Thanks for the Recommendation! Have read a couple of articles lately that state benefits from HCG that aren't scientifically/medically corroborated. One stated that it appeared that leydig cells were not only enlarged but the number seemed to have increased!? Just praying that I can get a few more good years out of these little boys before they completely retire...=) Appreciate your input...Roy

 

[Vince]

Vince...may eventually try that protocol! Since polycythemia is usually worse with injections I am hesitant to go there until I find reasonable control with TD Gel. Got so bad back in Sept that I had to terminate TRT, see a Hematologist to rule out Polycythemia Vera. 3 blood donations and one therapeutic phlebotomy later I was back down to manageable blood count levels. Eligible for another blood donation later this month, then another CBC lab to see how I am doing. Juggling hormones is definitely interesting! LOL! Glad you are doing well with your program...Roy

Watch your iron levels, frequent donations of blood will definitely lower your iron. You need iron for proper thyroid function.