On TRT, Now With Defy - Labs and Protocol

[cja]

Hello everyone!

Thanks for making such a informative site, its nice to see a place where we can come to read, learn, and discuss our TRT. I recently left my PCP for Defy, and they turned me onto Excelmale.com. Previously I did all my readings and questions at Reddit, but will start to migrate over to here. Ive only been on TRT since early Dec. 2016 but have already fired my PCP in favour over the Dr's @ Defy who have knowledge on TRT. My PCP had me front loading 200mg every 2 weeks (3 doses of this), then 200mg once per month! Some quick google searches and I knew that was a bad protocol. I went back to my PCP, armed with data and printed graphs from steriodcalc.com and my PCP proceeded to tell me that it was all B.S. and 200mg once per month is the way to go. So here I am, Ill prob be more of a lurker for a while, but am happy to be here.

Thanks!

 

[Vince]

Welcome to ExcelMale. You're in good hands with Defy Medical.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I understand some doctor's hesitation to prescribe TRT, but what I don't understand is when doctors prescribe it but with such an illogical regimen that demonstrates absolutely no understanding of half-life and pharmacokinetics.

 

[CoastWatcher]

We are glad you're here. We hope you'll be an active member.

 

[FeelingLost]

Hi cja welcome.
I am a new forum member and just started my trt in Jan. Even with the little knowledge I have gathered about TRT so far your 200mg/month sounds like you were headed for one hell of a roll-a-coaster ride. Glad to hear you found a Dr and lab you like. Please keep us updated.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Welcome to EM! Glad you joined.

 

[cja]

Appreciate the replies. Yesterday was actually my first day with my new treatment. I now have HCG, DHEA, low dose of an AI, and the Test CYP for my protocol. Anyone that is familiar with a AI, can you answer a question for me please. Will the AI lower the current Estrogen I have already, or just prevent more from aromatasing? My Estradiol Sensitive was pretty high @ 40.1 with a range of 8.0 - 35.0 and unfortunately I felt it. Sore nipples, sore body, tired earlier than I should be, emotional (just watching TV could bring that tears feeling), libido went away, and began to be cranky again at home/work. I guess Im looking to know when my Estrogen will be normal for me.

 

[Vince]

cja, I wouldn't think it's from estrogen, you need to post full labs with ranges.

 

[zojo360]

Depending on your AI. Arimidex which I see is the most common ancillary with TRT, will lower your current E2 level. Be vary cautious with your dosage. Arimidex is very effective and imo, less is more. 40 pg/ml is slightly elavated but what is more important is the testosterone to E2 ratio from my understanding. What is your new protocol?

 

[cja]

Ill get full labs posted this afternoon. By no way am I trying to undermine my new treatment, I am only trying to get a better understanding of it. A friend had told me my T/E2 ratio is 13, this testing was under my self modded (splitting up the 200mg my PCP gave me) protocol of Test CYP 50mg e3.5d, this self modded also had the e2 at 40.1 if that helps.

Current treatment I started yesterday.
400UI HCG e3.5d
70mg Test CYP e3.5d
25mg DHEA daily
0.22mg Anastrozole e3.5d

 

[cja]

cja, I wouldn't think it's from estrogen, you need to post full labs with ranges.

Sorry it took a little longer to get the links to my labs posted.


This lab is from my PCP, the one who made the 200mg every 2 weeks, for first 3 injections. Then switch to 200mg once per month.

http://imgur.com/5OlQhZF

This lab is what Defy ordered as they were missing from my original labs. At this time I had adjust my PCP to 50mg e3.5d, this was 2 weeks at that protocol and injection due that morning.

http://imgur.com/EfiUJes


I will add that a large part of my low test numbers are due to opioids (legally prescribed of course), that said I am 42 now so, possibly age as well. Some of the symptoms, I was tired all the time, I had felt no sense of worth, I didnt feel at home in my own home. This all began about 3 to 4 years ago. I mainly contributed it to work, at that time I was working 6 days per week for 2 years straight. I had asked for a T test back then, and was told they will run it, but never seen the results. Fast-forward to last year, when I was working only 5 days a week, and began to feel even worse. I contributed the feelings (especially the anxiety) to my medication (opioid). I began to slowly come off of the med. However this proved to be too much, I could not take it. I guess the lowering of my med coupled with low T was just too much. I had ended up at my PCP office, for a ear infection and he ran that first set of labs. 1 week later I had a bad protocol TRT plan.

 

[Vince]

For whatever reason, I can't see the second page.

 

[cja]

second set, second page http://imgur.com/9et7Z6s

think i had copied the wrong links

pre trt labs from PCP http://imgur.com/a/iybgZ

recently ordered by defy http://imgur.com/a/EF5fL

 

[Vince]

As you can see your testosterone is low and estradiol is moving up.

 

[cja]

will the 0.22mg Anastrozole e3.5d begin to work right away, and will this AI tackle the existing estradiol or only prevent it new estradiol from forming? being my test cyp was increased to 70mg e3.5d without the AI I would be even higher in the E2, assuming thats how this works. I guess I am worried of a E2 crash, and long term effects from taking a AI. I do realize TRT is for life, but Test is natural to our bodies, the AI is not.

 

[Vince]

I would probably follow the full protocol, until you have Labs again. Which should be at least 6 weeks. Don't make changes too fast, it takes time to get dialed in.

 

[CoastWatcher]

will the 0.22mg Anastrozole e3.5d begin to work right away, and will this AI tackle the existing estradiol or only prevent it new estradiol from forming? being my test cyp was increased to 70mg e3.5d without the AI I would be even higher in the E2, assuming thats how this works. I guess I am worried of a E2 crash, and long term effects from taking a AI. I do realize TRT is for life, but Test is natural to our bodies, the AI is not.

Estradiol is not a waste product that men work to eliminate from their body - it is a hormone, the result of testosterone aromatization, essential for health, particularly sexual health. In excess it can hinder libido and erectile issues. When pushed too low, the subjective feelings can be even worse. There is a special misery associated with low estradiol levels you don't want to experience. In short, you manage e2, but you don't fear it.

Anastrozole inhibits the aromatization of testosterone and limits the estradiol in your system. A little goes a long way. Defy has you on a modest protocol that should see your levels slide into place. Under the management of a capable physician, a patient can include anastrozole in their protocol for as long as it is needed.

 

[zojo360]

cja-
I began TRT because of opiates and the effect they play in hormones. I abused my prescriptions which led to years of chasing the dragon. Turned to methadone for help which caused more problems and finally was able to stop with the help of suboxone. I think the feelings you describe certainly can be attributed to low testosterone and perhaps manipulation of dopamine levels from opiates. Even to this day, I still feel lingering effects of the damage I've done to my dopamine receptors. I find it hard to experience pleasure from things that would cause others to be excited. It is indeed no joke trying to get off opiates and a quite the battle. You obviously know and have experience with it. Your not alone in all this and for what it's worth, keep moving forward with what you have to do. Things will get better and with a dialed in TRT protocol, persistence and a lot of patience, you can only improve your quality of life to its best potential. I'm still working on it myself but it's made all the difference. Stay diligent and in this forum. Lots of knowledge has been gained here and invaluable imo.

Good luck to you!!!

 

[Will Brink]

Hello everyone!

Thanks for making such a informative site, its nice to see a place where we can come to read, learn, and discuss our TRT. I recently left my PCP for Defy, and they turned me onto Excelmale.com. Previously I did all my readings and questions at Reddit, but will start to migrate over to here. Ive only been on TRT since early Dec. 2016 but have already fired my PCP in favour over the Dr's @ Defy who have knowledge on TRT. My PCP had me front loading 200mg every 2 weeks (3 doses of this), then 200mg once per month! Some quick google searches and I knew that was a bad protocol. I went back to my PCP, armed with data and printed graphs from steriodcalc.com and my PCP proceeded to tell me that it was all B.S. and 200mg once per month is the way to go. So here I am, Ill prob be more of a lurker for a while, but am happy to be here.

Thanks!

It goes without saying, your PCP truly not up to the task of TRT and that's one of the worst protocols I have seen in a long time. Defy will get you all squared away pronto.

- Will @ BrinkZone.com

 

[cja]

cja-
I began TRT because of opiates and the effect they play in hormones. I abused my prescriptions which led to years of chasing the dragon. Turned to methadone for help which caused more problems and finally was able to stop with the help of suboxone. I think the feelings you describe certainly can be attributed to low testosterone and perhaps manipulation of dopamine levels from opiates. Even to this day, I still feel lingering effects of the damage I've done to my dopamine receptors. I find it hard to experience pleasure from things that would cause others to be excited. It is indeed no joke trying to get off opiates and a quite the battle. You obviously know and have experience with it. Your not alone in all this and for what it's worth, keep moving forward with what you have to do. Things will get better and with a dialed in TRT protocol, persistence and a lot of patience, you can only improve your quality of life to its best potential. I'm still working on it myself but it's made all the difference. Stay diligent and in this forum. Lots of knowledge has been gained here and invaluable imo.

Good luck to you!!!

Thank you for the words of support. It is good to know I am not alone in my reasons for the low T in my life. Pretty sure being 42 has a little to do with it as well, lol. I am curious on how long you have been off methadone? Is there no way to repair the damage to the dopamine receptors, I was under the impression they will recover, but am now questioning this. I know exactly how you feel/felt, what I hate the most, when I go to pick my meds up they say "Oh, tell us how you are so happy now with the program". No matter what you say, they put a spin on it, and make it seem like methadone is a God Send. I think methadone for opiates is horrible, sure it got me off H. But Ibogaine will do the same, in a shorter time, and not trading one drug for another. Anyway, thats for another forum. zojo360, it is good to hear from another whom is in or has been in my shoes. Thank you!