New labs for your review/amusement

[Vince Carter]

NEw labs any insights are appreciated, the only, ongoing problem I'm having is with my Estrogen being so very high this year it seems. I incrementally stopped using Pregnenolone, then stopped DHEA, then stopped the Test Cream on the scrotum for DHT that I thought might be my aromatizing source. It turns out that none of those were the source of my E2. I have no reason I'm pushing E2 numbers like this. Over this year its 50/60 and now 88.

Protocol at time of labs, fasted and 26hrs last Cyp injection, 3.5days after HCG
.12ml Daily Cyp
200iu HCG E3.5D
NO = DHEA, No = Pregnenolone, NO = Test Cream (scrotum).
NO = Anastrozole

I have a follow up with Defy next week to discuss the E problem. Symptoms: overly warm or hot in bed at night, mild/moderately bitchy/PMSish. I don't perceive a water retention problem, or its very minor.
I am not overweight or obese to perhaps explain the aromatase either, I am 5'9" and 213.5 serious weight lifter/body builder. I am bigger and stronger than I've ever been. Lingering ED that is mild to moderate, I use Viagra 25mg as needed but have very good interest/libido, and mild urge to have sex so things are not too bad in that area that I can't cope easily.

 

[Vince Carter]

Things I did earlier this year to help E2, unsuccesfully, reduced HCG 250 > 200. I was using Cyp @ 50mg EOD, changed to daily inj.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I know you went to daily injections to lower estradiol (as did I). It worked for me, it seems to be a bust for you in that regard. Are you considering a return to less frequent injections?

 

[Vince Carter]

I some changes to my Cyp, HCG and added Anastrozole and will see what's up with new labs about Mid November. Still not using DHEA/Preg/T Cream.

 

[Vince]

I guess you could just start over, drop everything except injecting T every 3 1/2 days.

 

[Vince Carter]

I guess you could just start over, drop everything except injecting T every 3 1/2 days.

I've run it down to the basics already.

 

[Vince]

Your E2 really is high, it really would be nice to know what causing it? I always believe it's belly fat, it sounds like you have very little of that kind of fat.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

NEw labs any insights are appreciated, the only, ongoing problem I'm having is with my Estrogen being so very high this year it seems. I incrementally stopped using Pregnenolone, then stopped DHEA, then stopped the Test Cream on the scrotum for DHT that I thought might be my aromatizing source. It turns out that none of those were the source of my E2. I have no reason I'm pushing E2 numbers like this. Over this year its 50/60 and now 88.

Damn Vince...your numbers look pretty damn good except that darn E2. From what I can see, you're doing everything humanly possible to bring it down naturally, but it just isn't happening. You may have to just bite the bullet and start some low dose Anastrozole twice a week...I honestly don't what else to tell you. As long as you're going to do that, you might as well supplement with some DHEA/Preg, since your DHEA(S) has dropped down a bit.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[Vince]

Jackie, I always have the utmost respect for your opinion. But I know Vince Carter will find the reason why his 2E is so high and he will fix it.

 

[Starplex]

Have you considered taking Grape Seed Extract 400mg and ZMA at night. Might help somewhat.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

Jackie, I always have the utmost respect for your opinion. But I know Vince Carter will find the reason why his 2E is so high and he will fix it.

I certainly hope that he does. Vince is a smart guy, and has been attacking this problem systematically by removing the DHEA/Preg supplement, the T cream, and then by lowering his HCG dosage (which was already pretty damn low to begin with). In doing so he has just watched his E2 increase nearly 50% from this past year's average E2 levels.

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I might suggest supplementing with DIM and Calcium D Glucarate, but I honestly don't think that is going to lower his E2 into a desirable range. 88 is a pretty big number.

Vince's symptoms match those of high E2 with his being hot at night in bed, mild to moderate ED, light water retention, and feeling mildly to moderately "bitchy." He needs to drop his E2 by a good 50 points, and I hate to say it, but I think that an AI is going to be his only choice.

Due to his low SHBG, I don't see his protocol changing much. He's still going to need to be on daily injections of T. Possibly increasing the frequency of his HCG injections might have a small effect?? But honestly, I don't see that dropping his E2 level down to where it needs to be.

Does anybody else have any input here?

 

[Vince Carter]

I certainly hope that he does. Vince is a smart guy, and has been attacking this problem systematically by removing the DHEA/Preg supplement, the T cream, and then by lowering his HCG dosage (which was already pretty damn low to begin with). In doing so he has just watched his E2 increase nearly 50% from this past year's average E2 levels.

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I might suggest supplementing with DIM and Calcium D Glucarate, but I honestly don't think that is going to lower his E2 into a desirable range. 88 is a pretty big number.

Vince's symptoms match those of high E2 with his being hot at night in bed, mild to moderate ED, light water retention, and feeling mildly to moderately "bitchy." He needs to drop his E2 by a good 50 points, and I hate to say it, but I think that an AI is going to be his only choice.

Due to his low SHBG, I don't see his protocol changing much. He's still going to need to be on daily injections of T. Possibly increasing the frequency of his HCG injections might have a small effect?? But honestly, I don't see that dropping his E2 level down to where it needs to be.

Does anybody else have any input here?

I did try some Calcium D but with these levels I was certain it wasn't going to be enough. I did start the AI @ .30mg E3.5D, reluctantly. I have a consult on Tues the 1st...more to follow.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I did try some Calcium D but with these levels I was certain it wasn't going to be enough. I did start the AI @ .30mg E3.5D, reluctantly. I have a consult on Tues the 1st...more to follow.

I know how hard you've worked to avoid Anastrozole, quite a puzzle.

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

I did try some Calcium D but with these levels I was certain it wasn't going to be enough. I did start the AI @ .30mg E3.5D, reluctantly. I have a consult on Tues the 1st...more to follow.

Don't let it get you down Vince. That dosage of AI is sure to bring your E2 down where it should be. I curious as to how you will feel once your E2 gets down into the 25-35 range.

 

[James]

Vince Carter - if my memory is correct, seems you were taking 1/8 - 1/4 mg AI twice weekly in the past. Did you have high E2 numbers while on that protocol?

 

[Vince Carter]

Vince Carter - if my memory is correct, seems you were taking 1/8 - 1/4 mg AI twice weekly in the past. Did you have high E2 numbers while on that protocol?

I may have said I have it prescribed but not using it, no, not at all this year, I have .15mg capsules on hand.

 

[captain]

Dr. John Crisler said on the TRT Revolution Podcast that low SHBG could cause high estrogen.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Dr. John Crisler said on the TRT Revolution Podcast that low SHBG could cause high estrogen.

Low SHBG doesn't cause high estrogen, however low SHBG makes estrogen management more complex (and important) because there is a higher percentage of FREE estradiol.

 

[Vince Carter]

Thank you Dr Saya

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Thank you Dr Saya

I know you're speaking to Jill on Tuesday. Your E2 level increase is indeed perplexing given the systematic changes that have been made already. We'll get it down and I'll be interested to see how you feel once accomplished.