New here, could really use some help!

[PowellSixO]

I’ve been on trt for 2 1/2 years now. I started with the old school 250mg of test once a week protocol, with .1mg anastrozole twice weekly. The honey moon was great, then joint pain and low estrogen rocked my world. Thanks to another site, I found Ed injections, and no anastrozole to get my numbers perfect. I’ve been running 20mg of test cypionate Ed for 2 years straight, and my numbers have been good. Unfortunately about a year ago I started having anxiety and no sleep. At my worst I went 5 nights with no sleep whatsoever. Thanks to ambien, I’m able to get sleep some nights. I don’t want to be on ambien forever, and I can’t live with the anxiety anymore. It’s to the point that I’m probably going to lose my job. I can’t go a day without anxiety anymore. I got carted out of work one day in an ambulance, because I had such a severe panic attack. On other sites it’s taboo to say trt causes anxiety and insomnia, and I got no help whatsoever. I never ever had anxiety whatsoever before starting trt. I should be clear and say that the anxiety and insomnia didn’t start suddenly, it creeped over time. It’s just been the last 6 months that have been the worst. I don’t want to lose my job, and I don’t want to experiment with my hormones anymore. Can anyone please help me with getting off trt, and maybe a timeline of how long it takes, and what to expect. My test levels were roughly 350 to begin with, and life wasn’t perfect, but at this point I’d give a million dollars to go back to life before trt. I know everyone hates newbies coming in and posting crap like this, but I could really use some help guys. I’ll dig up my last labs and post them. Thanks.

 

[PowellSixO]

 

[PowellSixO]

I forgot to mention that I stopped taking my thyroid medication to see if that was causing my anxiety. This was done because my doctor suggested it. I stopped on may 3rd. That’s why my t4 reading was low. I go back on July 15th for new blood work. I had been on nature thyroid 60mg for 2 years, and then when it wasn’t available anymore, I was switched to np thyroid 60mg. Being off the thyroid has helped a bit, but not enough to be super noticeable. I still feel horrible most days.

 

[PowellSixO]

So I’ve found the defy medical Hpta restart. I’m going to run it by my my doc next Thursday when I see him. Is there a better restart protocol out there, or will that be sufficient?

Should I expect to experience greater anxiety, while waiting for my natural production to start up again?

Any information on what I can expect would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PowellSixO]

Well not much help from this group. I guess I’ll just document my own restart. I’ll start next Thursday after I speak with my doctor. Someone has got to do it I suppose. I’ve looked high and low, and nothing. A few posts about people starting their trt end, but they never finish sharing their experience. I guess I’ll be the bad guy coming off trt. Congrats to those of you who can have a positive experience with trt, but for me not do much. Update to come.

 

[Systemlord]

It's difficult to pinpoint what is causing your anxiety and we would only be guessing. I have heard Dr. Rob Kominiarek mention a very rare gene where certain guys just can't handle androgens and start falling apart after about 1 year on TRT.

You might look at the upstream hormones that TRT can reduce do to the HPTA being suppressed.

Pregnenolone being one of them, if this one is low you can expect memory problems and poor sleep.

 

[PowellSixO]

It's difficult to pinpoint what is causing your anxiety and we would only be guessing. I have heard Dr. Rob Kominiarek mention a very rare gene where certain guys just can't handle androgens and start falling apart after about 1 year on TRT.

You might look at the upstream hormones that TRT can reduce do to the HPTA being suppressed.

Pregnenolone being one of them, if this one is low you can expect memory problems and poor sleep.

I appreciate the response. I’ve thought about that, and I’ll mention it to my doctor. It’s just weird to me, the anxiety that is. Stress obviously makes it worse, but it usually happens during non stressful times. It happens when singing and driving down the road, after eating breakfast, right when I lay down in bed, in the shower, at work, it can happen anytime, and the worst of all in the middle of sleep. I’m frequently woken by anxiety and panic attacks. Some days it once or twice. Some days I have to leave work. Some days I feel the best I’ve ever felt in my life. There is no rhyme or reason to it. I’ve cleaned up my diet. All real foods, no caffeine for a year, no alcohol for a year, no soda for 2 years, and I regularly exercise. I just need to get off trt and get back to the old me. The old me wasn’t perfect by any means, but it was a LOT better than where I’m at now. I wish I could stay on it honestly. I look great, sex is great, I’ve got a full beard, hair on my chest, and ample energy. I’m jealous of those who can tolerate trt. I wish I was one of them.

I’d really just like to know what it’s going to be like going through a restart. I’ve got to end the anxiety and panic attacks. I never had anxiety at any level for 36 years. 2 years on trt, and I’m ruined.

 

[TonyG]

Your numbers look perfect actually. No idea what would cause the issues. Have you had neurotransmitters levels tested? That would be the next to check after your hormone panel. But we seem to have anxiety/panic in common.

I can give you some insight as I did come off TRT for 6 months and then got back on.
For me it was the opposite, after I came off, I began experiencing the anxiety / panic attacks you are having. Almost as if my body was in permanent withdrawal from the TRT. I had to get back on and everything returned to normal.

It only gets worse if you come off. I had constant anxiety and panic attacks and I spent months trying to figure out what was causing it (thyroid, etc) until I had blood work done and saw that my Free Testosterone was ridiculously low. That's when I realized coming off the TRT caused all of the issues.

Below is the outline of the protocol I used. I was on 200mg (1mL) / week one injection, and HCG 500IU 3x a week. You have to wean off the Testosterone by lowering it incrementally weekly, while raising the HCG to 2000IU each injection 3x / week.

Begin decreasing testosterone dose by 0.10ml each week;
Week 1- 0.90ml
Week 2- 0.80ml
Week 3- 0.70ml
Week 4- 0.60ml
Week 5- 0.50ml
Week 6- 0.40ml
Week 7- 0.20ml
Week 8- 0.10ml

8 weeks of HCG at 6000IU (2000IU 3x / week) and slowly wean off the testosterone as outlined above.

In your case since you are on a daily injection protocol I am not sure how you would do the math. I am with Defy as well and they also use a similar restart protocol (HCG only).

 

[PowellSixO]

Your numbers look perfect actually. No idea what would cause the issues. Have you had neurotransmitters levels tested? That would be the next to check after your hormone panel. But we seem to have anxiety/panic in common.

I can give you some insight as I did come off TRT for 6 months and then got back on.
For me it was the opposite, after I came off, I began experiencing the anxiety / panic attacks you are having. Almost as if my body was in permanent withdrawal from the TRT. I had to get back on and everything returned to normal.

It only gets worse if you come off. I had constant anxiety and panic attacks and I spent months trying to figure out what was causing it (thyroid, etc) until I had blood work done and saw that my Free Testosterone was ridiculously low. That's when I realized coming off the TRT caused all of the issues.

Below is the outline of the protocol I used. I was on 200mg (1mL) / week one injection, and HCG 500IU 3x a week. You have to wean off the Testosterone by lowering it incrementally weekly, while raising the HCG to 2000IU each injection 3x / week.

Begin decreasing testosterone dose by 0.10ml each week;
Week 1- 0.90ml
Week 2- 0.80ml
Week 3- 0.70ml
Week 4- 0.60ml
Week 5- 0.50ml
Week 6- 0.40ml
Week 7- 0.20ml
Week 8- 0.10ml

8 weeks of HCG at 6000IU (2000IU 3x / week) and slowly wean off the testosterone as outlined above.

In your case since you are on a daily injection protocol I am not sure how you would do the math. I am with Defy as well and they also use a similar restart protocol (HCG only).

Thanks for your input. Yeah it’s really weird. Everything I read says trt helps with anxiety and sleep, not make it worse.

 

[PowellSixO]

Well I just got back from seeing my trt doctor. He told me that he has seen a few people have similar issues that I’m experiencing. He’s says it very rare, but it does happen. He’s going to run more tests on my blood to look at my upstream hormones. Not sure why he’s just now suggesting this, as I’ve been spending thousands on medical bills trying to figure out what’s going on with me. Sleep studies, psychologists, endocrinologists, and more. At this point he said I should stop trt to see if my symptoms improve or worsen. He said since I’m not worried about getting my fertility back asap, that we quitting cold turkey would be the best method. Not sure I agree, but that’s what I’m going to try. Today was my last injection. I’ll be sure to update my progress or decline at least a few times a week, maybe even daily. Wish me luck.

 

[TonyG]

Sounds good. Also i don’t see Free Testosterone on your labs (maybe i missed it), its the most important one.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Well I just got back from seeing my trt doctor. He told me that he has seen a few people have similar issues that I’m experiencing. He’s says it very rare, but it does happen. He’s going to run more tests on my blood to look at my upstream hormones. Not sure why he’s just now suggesting this, as I’ve been spending thousands on medical bills trying to figure out what’s going on with me. Sleep studies, psychologists, endocrinologists, and more. At this point he said I should stop trt to see if my symptoms improve or worsen. He said since I’m not worried about getting my fertility back asap, that we quitting cold turkey would be the best method. Not sure I agree, but that’s what I’m going to try. Today was my last injection. I’ll be sure to update my progress or decline at least a few times a week, maybe even daily. Wish me luck.

I’ll be interested to see what your upstream hormones look like. That seems like the most logical place to look, and as you said I’m surprised he didn’t recommend that earlier. If upstream effects were going on and building over time that would explain why your symptoms crept up and worsened over time. Did you already get the bloodwork done to check those today?

 

[PowellSixO]

Sounds good. Also i don’t see Free Testosterone on your labs (maybe i missed it), its the most important one.

It’s on there. It’s just on the next page. 196

 

[PowellSixO]

I’ll be interested to see what your upstream hormones look like. That seems like the most logical place to look, and as you said I’m surprised he didn’t recommend that earlier. If upstream effects were going on and building over time that would explain why your symptoms crept up and worsened over time. Did you already get the bloodwork done to check those today?

Yes I did the blood work today. I speak with him next Thursday. He usually emails them to me after we discuss them. So we shall see in a week.

 

[Fortunate]

How's it going? Rather than totally stopping TRT, have you thought about backing off on your dose? I firmly believe excessively high T and/or its metabolites DO cause anxiety and sleep disturbance.

I am one of the few here with a lot of experience with Natesto. You should consider it. It's pulsed increases in test throughout the day, but won't keep levels high constantly. I have found it to be very beneficial from a neuropsych perspective. If it does not work for you, it's easy to stop and go back to whatever you want. It may provide the benefit you are looking for without causing anxiety.

 

[PowellSixO]

How's it going? Rather than totally stopping TRT, have you thought about backing off on your dose? I firmly believe excessively high T and/or its metabolites DO cause anxiety and sleep disturbance.

I am one of the few here with a lot of experience with Natesto. You should consider it. It's pulsed increases in test throughout the day, but won't keep levels high constantly. I have found it to be very beneficial from a neuropsych perspective. If it does not work for you, it's easy to stop and go back to whatever you want. It may provide the benefit you are looking for without causing anxiety.

I appreciate your response. I believe you are right with the lower dose. If I have to get back on trt, I’m going to do so with a much lower dose. For now, I’m going to proceed with trying to get off it. I know it’s going to be a difficult road, but I’ve convinced myself to at least try it. I’m honestly just exhausted from chasing my symptoms. If I can go back to pre trt me, I’ll never complain again. This has been an exhausting journey in a field that too little is known. I’m not educated enough to keep my self dialed in enough to be happy, and I’m tired of trying. The doctors I’ve thrown money at, seem to know even less than me. I just want to go back to the old me and let my body do it on itself. Eat healthy, exercise, and stay away from alcohol. If I don’t feel perfect, that’s fine. Anxiety and panic attacks are just pure hell. I feel for people battling ptsd and other disorders.

 

[Fortunate]

I feel you. I really do. I have also contemplated the same. That said, I have (without sophistication or a grand plan) try to wean off TRT myself. I felt miserable and got my levels checked and I was below 200. I am fine with being on TRT, as long as the treatment is not worse than the disease!

If you find yourself having a lot of difficulty, you really should give a close consideration to the Natesto. It is fairly gentle, preserves your own fertility, is not supposed to change estrogen or hematocrit and is very good for the mental aspect of TRT.

In any case, best of luck and please keep us informed.

 

[PowellSixO]

Well day one in the books. I was surprised to already notice a difference. Not sure if it’s in my head, but I definitely felt a lot of brain fog today. Hard to concentrate, and my eyes felt weird. I felt uncomfortable focusing on things with my eyes for a long time. Almost felt like I was on the verge of a headache all day, that never came.

 

[JayD]

Well day one in the books. I was surprised to already notice a difference. Not sure if it’s in my head, but I definitely felt a lot of brain fog today. Hard to concentrate, and my eyes felt weird. I felt uncomfortable focusing on things with my eyes for a long time. Almost felt like I was on the verge of a headache all day, that never came.

Keen to hear your progress. I had a bad anxiety filled experience on cream. Did a 6 month break now starting cypionate 6mg ED soon

 

[PowellSixO]

Well I made it through a very rough night. Insomnia and anxiety was very strong last night trying to fall asleep. An ambien had almost no effect in it either. Finally fell asleep around midnight. Fingers crossed that doesn’t continue.