New guy here wanted to introduce myself

[vpomer]

Whats up guys,
New guy to the board but not to the game of HRT and bodybulding

A little bit about me and whats going on with me
Im 48 years old 5 feet 4 inches about 190lbs about 10 percent bodyfat been training for about 20+ years been taking testosterone for past 15 years, typical HRT dose between 100-200mgs weekly

ok now whats going on with me now hold on cause its very bizarre about 5 years ago maybe longer i just dont have any blood work to confirm it testosterone just stopped working for me.
Been feeling like shit for several years now, training sucked could hardly make it to gym, my whole body aches me from head to toe, Tired all the time, bloated, no appetite, get up in morning feel like ive been run over by truck thats how bad i would ache, my back middle of my back,knees, shoulders, elbows,etc its hast been fun past few years.

Spend Thousands of dollars going to natuapaths, supplements, etc, didnt know what the hell was wrong with me
finally decided to go see a HRT specialist anyway i go see him he tells me to go off of everything i was like what, now granted im only on 120 mgs test even though it hasnt work in years im still on it i said i will crash he says deal with it, anyways i did what he told me to do few weeks later i crashed just like i thought,
He ran blood work after 6 weeks i have the labs.
you want to talk about numbers being tanked my test level was 44
My Dht was 4.7
My E2 was 5.4
Every thing was tanked he ran comprehensive blood work
told me to start on 100iu of hcg daily
and 40mgs of test c Subq eod

Ok here the tricky part all leading up to this wanted you guys to get a picture of everything i know i get longwinded
for some reason now like i said test hasnt work for me in years never knew why hers the kicker when i take test weather its 50 mgs or 200 mgs it does not convert to E2 or dht at all,
Theres no conversion at all

now granted ever since i started the hcg i feel better then i have in years i kid you not, workouts are great again, feeling pretty good, not great, still achy somewhat, appetite is better, that was just from the hcg no test that i started prior to going back on test,
another thing which we cant figure out is when i take a low dose test say 50 mgs within few hours my whole body aches me and i feel like shit, i swear but i can do 200 mgs of test and no issuee i think anyways, or i can do 50 mgs test no ester no issues with any achiness but when i do 50 or even 100 say of test c within hours my whole body aches me feel like crap, almost feels like my body is rejecting the androgens
so anyways getting back to experiment i decided to do 250 iu hcg 3x weekly and 200mgs test 1x week
tested after about 4 weeks to see my total and free test and E2 didnt run DHT i should have but got lazy
this is the numbers, I was also taking 100mgs of DHEA 2x day to see if it would raise my E2

total test 1140 range 264-916
free test 50 highest it goes probably higher range 6.8-21.5
E2 thats the sensitive E2 test 6.1 range 8-35

so as you can see 200 mgs of test rose my E2 by .6 percent and thats on top of hcg at 750iu 3x weekly too, since last labs when i was off of test for 6 weeks
as you can see the testosterone just does not want to convert to E2 and i can assume my DHT was tanked too,
also i have very low SHBG as well

I dont know why its not converting but its causing me all kinds of issues plus i have very low shbg which causes issues in lot of guys cause when its low your body eats up test rapidly thats why they say your better off with micro injections of test either eod or everyday i have tryed that again smaller doses of test make my body ache and turn my face and chest bright red for what ever reason

I have an Appt with Defy medical next month they are a hrt clinic and this Dr. Saya is supposed to be really good
So thats what ive been dealing with i just dont get it whats going on trying to figure things out please if any of you guys have any input or feedback please let me know im sure i didnt cover everything i would be hear writing a novel but i figured the more you know the more you might be able to help me

At this moment gonna go off of test cause i feel like im getting nothing from it except being bloated which is hard to understand especially when my E2 is in the tank,
gonna keep the hcg in and right now maybe try some trestolone to see if that can raise my E2 some

Ive tryed alot of things past 4 weeks or so nothing seems to be working
Ill leave it at this dont want to bore you anymore anymore well this one is a mystery here and any help would be grateful
please feel free to ask me anything cause again im sure ive missed a few things and you can always ask
sorry for the novel
thanks guys

I also have labs i can send to
Bottom line testosterone hasnt work for many years because i think its not converting to E2 and dht
and its causing me many issues as i wrote above
any help or feedback would be grateful just to figure out why this is happening

 

[Vince]

Why don't you post all your Labs along with the ranges, it would then be much easier to have a intelligent discussion.

 

[Systemlord]

Low SHBG men shouldn't be targeting high Total T, 40mg EOD is insane for a low SHBG man. Full labs including lab ranges are needed.

Your experience with Dr. Saya will be different than with previous doctors. You've been mismanaged for a long time.

 

[vpomer]

ok heres my labs being off everything for 6 weeks
prior to that only on 50mgs of test c 3x week
even though i havent gotten anything from test in years because again i dont think its converting to
dht or E2 from privious that i will send

 

[vpomer]

This is an older lab back from last year
was on 50mgs of test c every other day
remember never taken an estrogen blocker ever

 

[vpomer]

This lab was done recently trying to experiment by taking a bigger dose of test just once a week to see if my E2 would improve it went up .6 since my labs when i was off everything

test 200mgs 1x weekly
hcg 250 iu mon, wed, fri

test was 5 weeks on this protocal
bloods were drawn on Monday

 

[1Draw]

That is really strange. Are you taking any supplements at all? Something is grabbing your E2. Dr Saya hopefully can figure this out but you are the first person I’ve seen with this problem.

 

[vpomer]

thats the thing nothing, i cant figure it out a and ive spoken to a few guys that are pretty smart when it comes to the indocrine system and they never seen anything like it either,
they think maybe and this is a big maybe that the hypothalamus or pituitary is not getting the proper signal
again this has been going on for 5 years now that i know of because of the labs i have run but im beginning to think ive had this problem alot longer then i realize because of all the joint pain ive had over the past 20 years and i think and im not 100 percent cause again dont have any labs to back up my claim because of the very low E2 or should say tanked E2 levels

 

[Systemlord]

It's almost like the enzymes that converts testosterone into estrogen is missing, at Total T of over 1000 and E2 is very low. There aren't many men who experience excellent results with SHBG quite so low, you may just be genetically low SHBG.

You should have insane Free E2 levels with SHBG low.

Any medications in the past?

 

[vpomer]

Because ive dealt with alot of gut issues past 10 years which came out of the blue such as bloating, stomach distention, having hard time digestion protein, different food allergies and intolerances, constipation, etc.
I was put on several different kinds of antibiotics for months at a time but i always used plenty of probiotics
but i havent been on any in years now

 

[Systemlord]

Because ive dealt with alot of gut issues past 10 years which came out of the blue such as bloating, stomach distention, having hard time digestion protein, different food allergies and intolerances, constipation, etc.
I was put on several different kinds of antibiotics for months at a time but i always used plenty of probiotics
but i havent been on any in years now

That would explain it, gut issues have serious consequences. If you can't process nutrients properly then you would have nutritional deficiencies.

 

[vpomer]

I have recently worked with the gut specialist and he had me a protocol to clean up my gut with certain natural supplements to get rid of the stomach infections that i had and then we took another stool sample check for stomach infections and they were all gone.

 

[vpomer]

Has anyone heard any truth to this cause i remember reading this plus i had someone else tell me who is pretty knowledgeable in this department that when your E2 has been very low for years i mean tanked in my instance that it burns out the androgen receptor.
Is there any truth to this?