Negative Weight Loss on TRT?

[htownhomie]

Curious on the matter, but in your opinion, can a change in testosterone dosage cause a loss in weight? I am about 5'11", 165 right now, lean. I looked fuller at about 180-200mg/wk until I learned that A) for low shbg men, less is more and B) a lot of urologists don't understand TRT. I titrated down to 112 right now and have been here for the past month, but overall ive been 112 or less for approximately 4 months now and I've lost approximately 8-10 pounds. Granted, my diet has slacked at times and I'm on the go a lot more recently, but I can't help but feel like the decrease in my dosage could play a role outside of diet and exercise. In addition, I also feel like I haven't gained a whole lot of muscle since getting on. December 5th will make it a year so is it that I simply haven't been on long enough or did I miss my window to make real gains on the protocol? I worked very hard before starting trt to maintain my physique and I don't feel like I have made quite a noticeable difference in gains nor have my lifts increased. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Side notes: I have always been lean. Pre TRT i was approximately 160lbs ; 6 months in I was 173lbs, and now at 11 months in I'm at 164-65.

Diet is usually around 2800-3100 calories a day, train 4 days a week

 

[xqfq]

Could you post your labs from when you were on the higher dose and now on the lower dose? Not sure anyone can give specific feedback without them.

Weight loss could be muscle or water weight. If your strength in the gym isn’t really going down then it’s unlikely to be muscle protein, but I’d only be guessing.

 

[Vince]

Some low shbg guys, can use higher levels when injecting. It's more important to go by how you feel, then how your numbers look. If you feel better at higher testosterone levels, I would go for it.

 

[htownhomie]

Could you post your labs from when you were on the higher dose and now on the lower dose? Not sure anyone can give specific feedback without them.

Weight loss could be muscle or water weight. If your strength in the gym isn’t really going down then it’s unlikely to be muscle protein, but I’d only be guessing.

Labs on 180mg/wk T, 2mg Adex weekly:

Total: 1187 (300-1080 ng/dl)
Free T: 402 (47-244 pg/ml)
SHBG: 14.6 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L)
E2: 17 (standard at <= 60.7 pg/ml)
Hematocrit: 47.4 (37-49)
Prolactin: 9.9 (4-26 ng/dl)

Labs on 98mg/wk, no Adex weekly:

Total: 658 (250-1100 ng/dl)
Free: 159 (35-155 pg/ml)
SHBG: 8 (10-50 nmol/L)
E2: 15 ( <= 29 pg/ml)
Hematocrit and Prolactin were in range

 

[htownhomie]

Some low shbg guys, can use higher levels when injecting. It's more important to go by how you feel, then how your numbers look. If you feel better at higher testosterone levels, I would go for it.

Vince, what is/are the differentiating factor(s) needed to assess whether a higher or lower dosage is needed in my case? As you can see, getting free T in normal range is hard with any dose. Also, taking 2mg/Adex a week at 180 was a bit excessive but if I took a higher dose again, I would most likely take .25Adex/day, which would bring it hopefully into the 20's.

 

[Systemlord]

You're only injecting once weekly, no wonder you are not showing benefit. I have low SHBG and don't show hardly any benefits injecting once or twice weekly regardless of how high my levels are, it's like my body ignores testosterone.

The muscle starts piling on when I inject at least EOD or daily, veins pop as well. My SHBG is 14.

 

[htownhomie]

You're only injecting once weekly, no wonder you are not showing benefit. I have low SHBG and don't show hardly any benefits injecting once or twice weekly regardless of how high my levels are, it's like my body ignores testosterone.

The muscle starts piling on when I inject at least EOD or daily, veins pop as well. My SHBG is 14.

180mg/wk protocol was a twice a week injection cycle. I switched to dailies approx. 2-3 months ago

 

[htownhomie]

You're only injecting once weekly, no wonder you are not showing benefit. I have low SHBG and don't show hardly any benefits injecting once or twice weekly regardless of how high my levels are, it's like my body ignores testosterone.

The muscle starts piling on when I inject at least EOD or daily, veins pop as well. My SHBG is 14.

What is your daily dosage as far as test and possibly AI's, and your side effect profile if you dont mind me asking?

 

[Systemlord]

What is your daily dosage as far as test and possibly AI's, and your side effect profile if you dont mind me asking?

Either 7mg enanthate or 6mg cypionate daily, I get higher levels on cypionate versus enanthate for some reason. I'm very sensitive to Test when injecting daily, within 8 hours of an injection, muscles are getting hard, veins popping, sleeping better and things happen very quickly. Maybe this is why I'm having problems with minerals and vitamins.

I'm off TRT for 5 months because I'm having problems keeping vitamin C from crashing and the reason is unknown. I'm having issues with potassium as well, I can't keep it elevated. My vitamins and minerals drop quickly after only one injection within 24 hours.

 

[htownhomie]

Either 7mg enanthate or 6mg cypionate daily, I get higher levels on cypionate versus enanthate for some reason. I'm very sensitive to Test when injecting daily, within 8 hours of an injection, muscles are getting hard, veins popping, sleeping better and things happen very quickly. Maybe this is why I'm having problems with minerals and vitamins.

I'm off TRT for 5 months because I'm having problems keeping vitamin C from crashing and the reason is unknown. I'm having issues with potassium as well, I can't keep it elevated. My vitamins and minerals drop quickly after only one injection within 24 hours.

How is your E2 on trt?

 

[htownhomie]

Either 7mg enanthate or 6mg cypionate daily, I get higher levels on cypionate versus enanthate for some reason. I'm very sensitive to Test when injecting daily, within 8 hours of an injection, muscles are getting hard, veins popping, sleeping better and things happen very quickly. Maybe this is why I'm having problems with minerals and vitamins.

I'm off TRT for 5 months because I'm having problems keeping vitamin C from crashing and the reason is unknown. I'm having issues with potassium as well, I can't keep it elevated. My vitamins and minerals drop quickly after only one injection within 24 hours.

And the reaction to your vitamins is crazy, have you gotten a comprehensive metabolic panel done to see any discrepancies?

 

[Systemlord]

How is your E2 on trt?

I seem to do well around 400 ng/dL,, FT 15.0. My E2 is 26 or 33 at these number, 31% body fat.

 

[madman]

Curious on the matter, but in your opinion, can a change in testosterone dosage cause a loss in weight? I am about 5'11", 165 right now, lean. I looked fuller at about 180-200mg/wk until I learned that A) for low shbg men, less is more and B) a lot of urologists don't understand TRT. I titrated down to 112 right now and have been here for the past month, but overall ive been 112 or less for approximately 4 months now and I've lost approximately 8-10 pounds. Granted, my diet has slacked at times and I'm on the go a lot more recently, but I can't help but feel like the decrease in my dosage could play a role outside of diet and exercise. In addition, I also feel like I haven't gained a whole lot of muscle since getting on. December 5th will make it a year so is it that I simply haven't been on long enough or did I miss my window to make real gains on the protocol? I worked very hard before starting trt to maintain my physique and I don't feel like I have made quite a noticeable difference in gains nor have my lifts increased. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Side notes: I have always been lean. Pre TRT i was approximately 160lbs ; 6 months in I was 173lbs, and now at 11 months in I'm at 164-65.

Diet is usually around 2800-3100 calories a day, train 4 days a week

Curious on the matter, but in your opinion, can a change in testosterone dosage
cause a loss in weight?

- regarding muscle tissue..... using trt doses highly doubtful unless you decreased your dose to the point that your TT/FT levels are now too low

-keep in mind to that if your diet is not consistent and you are not taking in enough calories/day than one could easily lose some weight

- loss in water weight definitely if you were holding more water/bloat due to excess E2 but in your case you were using a whopping dose of adex 2 mg/week and your E2 that you posted above on labs is in the lower end (standard assay)

- seeing as you were 160 lbs pre-trt at a height of 5'11and lean.....I would definitely say you have a fast metabolism and are the hard-gainer type and would most likely need a fair amount of calories to put on weight

I also feel like I haven't gained a whole lot of muscle since getting on.

- why would you expect such we are on trt here.....not steroids

- sure with the proper diet/training protocol when on trt and using a dose of T which would have your TT/FT levels in a healthy range whether high/normal or slightly above one should see improvements in body composition (muscle/strength gain, fat loss (depending on diet) but it will be minimal as in do not expect to gain a lot of pure muscle tissue (actin/myosin) using such doses

- most that claim they are gaining a lot of muscle on a trt doses are holding more water weight intracellular as in the muscle cell and in many cases extra-cellular as in water retention/bloat (between the muscle/skin) due to excess E2.....along with increased muscle proteins (actin/myosin)

- you were only eating 2800-3100 calories.....with your body type no way you are gaining much weight on such

Vince, what is/are the differentiating factor(s) needed to assess whether a higher or lower dosage is needed in my case?

As you can see, getting free T in normal range is hard with any dose. Also, taking 2mg/Adex a week at 180 was a bit excessive but if I took a higher dose again, I would most likely take .25Adex/day, which would bring it hopefully into the 20's.

- gaining muscle should be the least of your concerns on trt as what truly matters is following a protocol which has your TT levels elevated enough to allow you to attain a healthy FT level which will result in relief/improvement of low-t symptoms regarding your mood/energy/libido/erectile function and increased overall well-being

- you have no idea where your FT truly sits on such protocols as you tested it using the piss poor inaccurate direct immunoassay.

- to truly know where your FT sits you would need to use the most accurate testing method such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) or simply use the newer TruT calculated method (which has been shown to be on par with results obtained by the gold standard testing method ED)

 

[Systemlord]

How is your E2 on trt?

I seem to do well around 400 ng/dL,, FT 15.0. My E2 is 26 or 33 at these numbers, 31% body fat.

And the reaction to your vitamins is crazy, have you gotten a comprehensive metabolic panel done to see any discrepancies?

I believe my diabetes is causing these mineral and vitamin issues. Any time I attempt to treat the diabetes or blood pressure, potassium is crushed. I start TRT and there goes the vitamin C below range.

My doctors keep telling me there is nothing wrong, even with potassium all over the place in lab testing. I tested potassium 3 times in 5 days, 4.5 one day, 4.1 another and 3.6. The first test I was only taking 400mg potassium, last one I needed 1600mg of potassium and struggling to keep it in range.

My doctors either know something up and are waiting for things to reveal themselves or are just idiots.

 

[madman]

You're only injecting once weekly, no wonder you are not showing benefit. I have low SHBG and don't show hardly any benefits injecting once or twice weekly regardless of how high my levels are, it's like my body ignores testosterone.

The muscle starts piling on when I inject at least EOD or daily, veins pop as well. My SHBG is 14.

Your killing me here.....no one is piling on any muscle using trt doses!

 

[madman]

Labs on 180mg/wk T, 2mg Adex weekly:

Total: 1187 (300-1080 ng/dl)
Free T: 402 (47-244 pg/ml)
SHBG: 14.6 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L)
E2: 17 (standard at <= 60.7 pg/ml)
Hematocrit: 47.4 (37-49)
Prolactin: 9.9 (4-26 ng/dl)

Your FT 45.37 ng/dL was well over the top end of the reference range 16-31 ng/dL on such protocol.....180 mg/week (90 mg every 3.5 days) and that is at trough if you tested bloods at the proper time/day.....your peak TT/FT let alone E2/free estradiol would be much higher

Labs on 98mg/wk, no Adex weekly:

Total: 658 (250-1100 ng/dl)
Free: 159 (35-155 pg/ml)
SHBG: 8 (10-50 nmol/L)
E2: 15 ( <= 29 pg/ml)
Hematocrit and Prolactin were in range

Your FT 25.29 ng/dL is just above mid-range of the reference range 16-31 ng/dL on such protocol.....98 mg/week (14 mg daily) and that is at trough if you tested bloods at the proper time

As you can see on the 1st protocol your TT/FT levels were very high at trough and seeing as you cut your overall weekly T dose by basically half which is a significant drop you now have a lot lower TT which resulted in a FT level just over mid-range!

 

[htownhomie]

Curious on the matter, but in your opinion, can a change in testosterone dosage
cause a loss in weight?

- regarding muscle tissue..... using trt doses highly doubtful unless you decreased your dose to the point that your TT/FT levels are now too low

-keep in mind to that if your diet is not consistent and you are not taking in enough calories/day than one could easily lose some weight

- loss in water weight definitely if you were holding more water/bloat due to excess E2 but in your case you were using a whopping dose of adex 2 mg/week and your E2 that you posted above on labs is in the lower end (standard assay)

- seeing as you were 160 lbs pre-trt at a height of 5'11and lean.....I would definitely say you have a fast metabolism and are the hard-gainer type and would most likely need a fair amount of calories to put on weight

I also feel like I haven't gained a whole lot of muscle since getting on.

- why would you expect such we are on trt here.....not steroids

- sure with the proper diet/training protocol when on trt and using a dose of T which would have your TT/FT levels in a healthy range whether high/normal or slightly above one should see improvements in body composition (muscle/strength gain, fat loss (depending on diet) but it will be minimal as in do not expect to gain a lot of pure muscle tissue (actin/myosin) using such doses

- most that claim they are gaining a lot of muscle on a trt doses are holding more water weight intracellular as in the muscle cell and in many cases extra-cellular as in water retention/bloat (between the muscle/skin) due to excess E2.....along with increased muscle proteins (actin/myosin)

- you were only eating 2800-3100 calories.....with your body type no way you are gaining much weight on such




- gaining muscle should be the least of your concerns on trt as what truly matters is following a protocol which has your TT levels elevated enough to allow you to attain a healthy FT level which will result in relief/improvement of low-t symptoms regarding your mood/energy/libido/erectile function and increased overall well-being

- you have no idea where your FT truly sits on such protocols as you tested it using the piss poor inaccurate direct immunoassay.

- to truly know where your FT sits you would need to use the most accurate testing method such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) or simply use the newer TruT calculated method (which has been shown to be on par with results obtained by the gold standard testing method ED)

Thank you for your input. I guess I was comparing my situation to other anecdotal trt stories where men were weighing in at 10-20lbs heavier than they were prior, which now that I hear your perspective, it does seem like water retention, bloat, and bs. As for my readings at 98mg, my urologist Dr. Lipschultz was booked until january...so I had to get some bloods done by my PCP who I now know doesnt provide accurate readings, and yes I get them done at my trough period. I guess now that I have gotten the closest to a sweet spot on my trt journey, I wanted to focus more on my physique. I know 98mg or even slightly more won't make me Arnold, I'd just like to maximize the physical benefits at any rate.