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Need fish oil recommendation
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<blockquote data-quote="IntelligentLabs" data-source="post: 43503" data-attributes="member: 13584"><p>Hi Guys,</p><p></p><p></p><p>Great questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can!</p><p></p><p></p><p>A 3:2 ratio or 1.5:1 is the natural ratio of EPA to DHA in fish. You may see this ratio in cheaper fish oils because many manufacturers do little to concentrate the fish oil, often only having around 300mg of EPA and DHA per 1000mg capsule.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As you start to concentrate fish oils companies tend to use more EPA because there is more available in in raw fish oil. However, it's not just cheap fish oils that use this ratio, for example Nordic naturals ultimate omega has roughly a 3:2 ratio in their Ultimate omega, which is very much a premium fish oil and as a company they are the current market leader in sales volume for fish oils.</p><p></p><p></p><p>One of the reasons I'm such a fan of DHA is our evolutionary history.As a species we started adding omega 3's to our diet through fish and seafood when our ancestors moved out of the forests of North Africa to find food at the beginning of the last ice age, (or present Ice age to be more exact), around 2.5 million years ago. It led them to the lakes of the great rift valley in east africa and that is where we start to see increases in brain size in early hominid species in the fossil records. </p><p></p><p></p><p>It's argued pretty convincingly in "Human Brain Evolution: The Influence of Freshwater and Marine food resources" by Steven Cunnane, that an abundance of DHA and it's special properties in increasing the fluidity and electrical conductivity of cell membranes especially at synapse for neurones in our brain, being responsible for the increases in our brain sizes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So in other words we've been consuming EPA and DHA in the 3:2 ratio for over 2 million years, and DHA has had a key role in driving evolution, so I see little point in changing that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As for EPA and DHA competing, I think you mean Omega 6 and Omega 3 competing along the metabolic pathways. Below is a diagram showing the conversion pathways of omega 3 and 6, and shows the competing enzymes. EPA competes with AA for conversion with the Delta 5 desaturase enzyme.</p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]2195[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can see from the diagram that EPA is a 20 carbon molecule with 5 double bonds, hence 20:5 n3 (n3 for omega 3, which means the last double bond in the molecule is 3 carbon atoms from the end, in omega 6 fatty acids the last double bond is 6 carbon atoms from the end), DHA is 22 carbon atoms with 6 double bonds (22:6 n3). Because it's a larger molecule it is harder or 'more expensive' to produce in nature, or in a lab. The extra double bond is what creates the extra fluidity it offers when incorporated into cell membranes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>These double bonds are actually very fragile, and they are why polyunsaturated fatty acids oxidise so easily.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Maxadvance I noticed you copied and pasted the Barry Sears article on EPA and DHA in another post, it's a good article, however, he is a little naughty in not citing articles to back all of his claims.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The article is here Pat is you want to read it </p><p><a href="https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6750-EPA-vs-DHA-Know-the-Differences" target="_blank">https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6750-EPA-vs-DHA-Know-the-Differences</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>For example, he says that EPA and DHA have a similar ability to reduce circulating triglycerides. However, DHA has actually been shown to be more effective than EPA at reducing triglycerides levels.</p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21975919" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21975919</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>He does also point out though that DHA is better at increasing the size of LDL particles (the bad cholesterol), and stopping them from lodging themselves in the walls of arteries and causing artherosclerotic lesions (heart disease). DHA increasing the size of LDL may well be the reason why DHA has been shown to slightly increase the 'levels' of LDL. You keep the number of LDL particles constant but increase their size, then you'll get an increased LDL count in standard lab tests.</p><p></p><p></p><p>DHA is also more effective at increasing the level of HDL (the good cholesterol).</p><p></p><p></p><p>When is comes to inflammation EPA is excellent. It directly produces a number of anti inflammatory Prostagladins, Prostacyclins, Leukotrienes, Thromboaxanes - which are know as eicosanoids. It also directly limits the production of AA, and AA produces inflammatory eicosanoids. Although these can be useful, when there is too much AA it causes a problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Both DHA and EPA are effective at producing anti inflammatory resolvins and protectins. However, DHA has been shown to have a key anti inflammatory effect in it's role in producing Maresins.</p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/foas-hau070113.php" target="_blank">http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/foas-hau070113.php</a></p><p></p><p></p><p>Dr Sears did say in his article that DHA is an inhibitor of the enzyme, delta-6-desaturase, that produces gamma linolenic acid or GLA from linoleic acid. GLA produces a number of anti inflammatory ecosanoids. However, it seems both DHA and EPA can inhibit delta-6-desaturase.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7840871" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7840871</a></p><p></p><p>So if reducing inflammation is your concern then adding a GLA supplement to your regime, like evening primrose oil, might be something to think about.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So in conclusion both EPA and DHA are great, and we include both in our omega 3 in that natural ratio found in fish that has had a driving factor in our evolution.</p><p></p><p></p><p>An interesting point is that DHA is much more efficiently synthesised in woman then men, which is probably down to women needing to provide a constant supply of DHA for a growing fetus, so I think it's even more important for men to make sure they get a good amount of preformed DHA.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="IntelligentLabs, post: 43503, member: 13584"] Hi Guys, Great questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can! A 3:2 ratio or 1.5:1 is the natural ratio of EPA to DHA in fish. You may see this ratio in cheaper fish oils because many manufacturers do little to concentrate the fish oil, often only having around 300mg of EPA and DHA per 1000mg capsule. As you start to concentrate fish oils companies tend to use more EPA because there is more available in in raw fish oil. However, it's not just cheap fish oils that use this ratio, for example Nordic naturals ultimate omega has roughly a 3:2 ratio in their Ultimate omega, which is very much a premium fish oil and as a company they are the current market leader in sales volume for fish oils. One of the reasons I'm such a fan of DHA is our evolutionary history.As a species we started adding omega 3's to our diet through fish and seafood when our ancestors moved out of the forests of North Africa to find food at the beginning of the last ice age, (or present Ice age to be more exact), around 2.5 million years ago. It led them to the lakes of the great rift valley in east africa and that is where we start to see increases in brain size in early hominid species in the fossil records. It's argued pretty convincingly in "Human Brain Evolution: The Influence of Freshwater and Marine food resources" by Steven Cunnane, that an abundance of DHA and it's special properties in increasing the fluidity and electrical conductivity of cell membranes especially at synapse for neurones in our brain, being responsible for the increases in our brain sizes. So in other words we've been consuming EPA and DHA in the 3:2 ratio for over 2 million years, and DHA has had a key role in driving evolution, so I see little point in changing that. As for EPA and DHA competing, I think you mean Omega 6 and Omega 3 competing along the metabolic pathways. Below is a diagram showing the conversion pathways of omega 3 and 6, and shows the competing enzymes. EPA competes with AA for conversion with the Delta 5 desaturase enzyme. [ATTACH=CONFIG]2195[/ATTACH] You can see from the diagram that EPA is a 20 carbon molecule with 5 double bonds, hence 20:5 n3 (n3 for omega 3, which means the last double bond in the molecule is 3 carbon atoms from the end, in omega 6 fatty acids the last double bond is 6 carbon atoms from the end), DHA is 22 carbon atoms with 6 double bonds (22:6 n3). Because it's a larger molecule it is harder or 'more expensive' to produce in nature, or in a lab. The extra double bond is what creates the extra fluidity it offers when incorporated into cell membranes. These double bonds are actually very fragile, and they are why polyunsaturated fatty acids oxidise so easily. Maxadvance I noticed you copied and pasted the Barry Sears article on EPA and DHA in another post, it's a good article, however, he is a little naughty in not citing articles to back all of his claims. The article is here Pat is you want to read it [URL]https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6750-EPA-vs-DHA-Know-the-Differences[/URL] For example, he says that EPA and DHA have a similar ability to reduce circulating triglycerides. However, DHA has actually been shown to be more effective than EPA at reducing triglycerides levels. [URL]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21975919[/URL] He does also point out though that DHA is better at increasing the size of LDL particles (the bad cholesterol), and stopping them from lodging themselves in the walls of arteries and causing artherosclerotic lesions (heart disease). DHA increasing the size of LDL may well be the reason why DHA has been shown to slightly increase the 'levels' of LDL. You keep the number of LDL particles constant but increase their size, then you'll get an increased LDL count in standard lab tests. DHA is also more effective at increasing the level of HDL (the good cholesterol). When is comes to inflammation EPA is excellent. It directly produces a number of anti inflammatory Prostagladins, Prostacyclins, Leukotrienes, Thromboaxanes - which are know as eicosanoids. It also directly limits the production of AA, and AA produces inflammatory eicosanoids. Although these can be useful, when there is too much AA it causes a problem. Both DHA and EPA are effective at producing anti inflammatory resolvins and protectins. However, DHA has been shown to have a key anti inflammatory effect in it's role in producing Maresins. [URL]http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-07/foas-hau070113.php[/URL] Dr Sears did say in his article that DHA is an inhibitor of the enzyme, delta-6-desaturase, that produces gamma linolenic acid or GLA from linoleic acid. GLA produces a number of anti inflammatory ecosanoids. However, it seems both DHA and EPA can inhibit delta-6-desaturase. [url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7840871[/url] So if reducing inflammation is your concern then adding a GLA supplement to your regime, like evening primrose oil, might be something to think about. So in conclusion both EPA and DHA are great, and we include both in our omega 3 in that natural ratio found in fish that has had a driving factor in our evolution. An interesting point is that DHA is much more efficiently synthesised in woman then men, which is probably down to women needing to provide a constant supply of DHA for a growing fetus, so I think it's even more important for men to make sure they get a good amount of preformed DHA. [/QUOTE]
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