MY RECENT LAB RESULTS

[Dansk]

Hi all,

52 yo 180lbs, probably around 18-20% BF, small framed, pretty healthy I take no meds, I workout pretty consistently, until I go through what feels like a energy, brain fog, lasting soreness, major achy joints, weakness, after 4-6 weeks into lifting and some light cardio. I don't feel like I am overdoing it at all. I then stop all workouts and after a couple weeks I feel normal again. Its really weird seems like my body doesn't like when I work out. I suspected I was not eating enough and recently began taking in more calories, in over the last 6-8 weeks I have gained some muscle by doing so, but did start experiencing the crash again after week 8, feeling like i'm not recovering, sore, joints hurting, tired, and feeling a little slow mentally. My goal for my workouts are to lean out some, but I can never seem to loose the SQ fat, I can basically pinch an inch or 2 almost anywhere on my body. This is not from lack of effort, over the years I have tried with weights and cardio. Anyway. To add another perspective, to look at me people have said I look like i'm in good shape, they have I don't look fat at all, and I don't look overly muscular either.

So I posted a few years ago with lab results, basically I was told my Estradiol was nonexistent, the lab result was non detectable, I was tested twice within a month, this was not a sensitive test. The testing also revealed high SHBG and low free T, and TT was pretty good for my age. The MD who tested wanted to start me on HCG mono therapy, I declined. I tried a very quick time about a month of DHEA and then didn't really feel a difference and blew it off.

Over the last few months I began testing, the dates and results are below. I also began taking a very high quality multivitamin, and fish oil.

Discounted Labs (Love you guys, thanks for what you do)

6/14/18 - 11:30am (After this test, I started using a OTC DHEA cream EOD for up until August then stopped)
TT - 519
Free T - 9.1
Estradiol sensitive - 15.6

10/10/18 - 11:15am
TT - 475
Free T - 7.6
Estradiol sensitive 17.5
Vit D 37.9 (Had this checked in April 2018 it was 40)
Cardiac CRP - 0.4 (checking for deep inflammation)
Reverse T3 - 11.1 (had other thyroids checked in April 2018 all were good)

12/18/18 - 8:30am (I was lifting consistently since last test in October, I was feeling the crash starting and tested)
TT - 451
Free T -7.9
Estradiol sensitive - 18.7
Pregnenolone - 45
DHEA Sulfate - 172
SHBG - 59.8

It seems I am on the low side of everything?? Why?? I was thinking about going with a Pregnenolone/DHEA supplement, to see if this helps bump those levels up, and maybe things downstream also. Does this make sense??

Any advice, thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Vince]

When someone is not on trt, I would not recommend supplementing with DHEA. DHEA will convert testosterone into estrogen. Something you really don't want.

 

[Dansk]

When someone is not on trt, I would not recommend supplementing with DHEA. DHEA will convert testosterone into estrogen. Something you really don't want.

My thinking was considering my levels, that may be a good thing??

 

[Gman86]

I would get on TRT asap. You would also benefit for supplementing with DHEA, but I would start with just plain testosterone at the beginning. TRT is the answer. I recommend just giving DefyMedical a call. I went through other TRT clinics/ doctors that specialize in hormones, and wasted years and a lot of money. Just call Defy, trust me.

 

[Dansk]

I would get on TRT asap. You would also benefit for supplementing with DHEA, but I would start with just plain testosterone at the beginning. TRT is the answer. I recommend just giving DefyMedical a call. I went through other TRT clinics/ doctors that specialize in hormones, and wasted years and a lot of money. Just call Defy, trust me.

I would appreciate if you could elaborate a bit more as to why TRT is the answer??

 

[Vince Carter]

Pregnenlone is a very poor test, is not accurate and is not used though its clearly available, no one uses it. Too as you were told DHEA converts to Estrogen and isn't advisable either. And no one said TRT is the answer.

Too, you can't run RT3 in isolation it has to be run with the others in the big 5 of Thyroid tests and saying "all were good" means absolutely nothing to any one that want's to help you.

Note, too, no LH or FSH testing.

 

[lemonflavor]

Just on the off-chance this would be relevant, have you looked into deload weeks regarding weight training? I don't really do them much myself, but some do them religiously every 4-6 weeks. It sounds kind of like overtraining (or over-reaching if you prefer), but then you say that you don't feel you're working out that hard. It's strange that you were: 1) able to gain some muscle, and 2) feel normal after not working out for two weeks.

 

[Dansk]

Pregnenlone is a very poor test, is not accurate and is not used though its clearly available, no one uses it. Too as you were told DHEA converts to Estrogen and isn't advisable either. And no one said TRT is the answer.

Too, you can't run RT3 in isolation it has to be run with the others in the big 5 of Thyroid tests and saying "all were good" means absolutely nothing to any one that want's to help you.

Note, too, no LH or FSH testing.

appreciate your input, I will need to get those thyroid numbers. Disappointing to hear the Pregnenolone test is useless, why would they even offer it? I was responding to gman86 who indeed said "TRT is the answer"

 

[Dansk]

Just on the off-chance this would be relevant, have you looked into deload weeks regarding weight training? I don't really do them much myself, but some do them religiously every 4-6 weeks. It sounds kind of like overtraining (or over-reaching if you prefer), but then you say that you don't feel you're working out that hard. It's strange that you were: 1) able to gain some muscle, and 2) feel normal after not working out for two weeks.

I have not done deload weeks, but I'm going to do so. I'm usually just forced into stopping for a few weeks due to how I feel. I don't think its over training, I do 2 muscle groups per day with no more than 8 sets per group. I do 2 days on then do a cardio, yoga, stretching day then another 2 days on. I guess I'm wondering if my labs results could be the issue? I'm guessing if I can get the bound up hormones free things would be better.

 

[Gman86]

I would appreciate if you could elaborate a bit more as to why TRT is the answer??

I came to that conclusion based off of your symptoms, your lab results, and your age. It makes sense to think that if you could just lower your SHBG, and free up your testosterone, that you’ll be good to go. But, I too had a SHBG of about 54, prior to TRT, and I literally did everything imagineable to try and free it up, with no success. SHBG is unfortunately almost impossible to lower without going on testosterone, or medications. Trust me, I literally tried everything, and spent a decent amount of money doing so, and that was when I was 27-28 years old. I would imagine that it would be even harder for you at 52 years old.

To keep this short and to put it bluntly, you’re 52 years old, your free testosterone is at the bottom of the barrel. You can try to raise it naturally, but most likely it’s a losing battle. U might be able to raise it slightly, for brief periods, but this is basically your baseline now. And even if you do raise is slightly for say a month or so, it’s probably not going to be enough to get rid of your symptoms. What’s more likely, is that as time goes by, your levels are just going to continue to drop, unfortunately. Before TRT, I had a SHBG of around 54, and a free T of around 7-9. I felt absolutely horrible. I feel much much better now that my free T level is normal. To me, the answer is simple for you, just get on TRT and feel better.

So let me ask you, are you hesitant to try TRT? At 52, and with your numbers/ symptoms, you are literally the perfect candidate for TRT. Are you just checking to see if there is anything you can do on your own naturally to raise your free T and resolve your symptoms? If so, that’s completely understandable. But in my opinion, there just ain’t anything you can really do to resolve your symptoms on your own. I know it sucks, trust me, at 27-28 I tried to do everything imagineable to avoid TRT. But don’t look at that as a negative. Now that I’ve been on TRT for a while, I realize that TRT was one of the best things that ever happened to me. Look at gettjng on TRT as a huge positive, not a negative.

 

[Dansk]

I came to that conclusion based off of your symptoms, your lab results, and your age. It makes sense to think that if you could just lower your SHBG, and free up your testosterone, that you’ll be good to go. But, I too had a SHBG of about 54, prior to TRT, and I literally did everything imagineable to try and free it up, with no success. SHBG is unfortunately almost impossible to lower without going on testosterone, or medications. Trust me, I literally tried everything, and spent a decent amount of money doing so, and that was when I was 27-28 years old. I would imagine that it would be even harder for you at 52 years old.

To keep this short and to put it bluntly, you’re 52 years old, your free testosterone is at the bottom of the barrel. You can try to raise it naturally, but most likely it’s a losing battle. U might be able to raise it slightly, for brief periods, but this is basically your baseline now. And even if you do raise is slightly for say a month or so, it’s probably not going to be enough to get rid of your symptoms. What’s more likely, is that as time goes by, your levels are just going to continue to drop, unfortunately. Before TRT, I had a SHBG of around 54, and a free T of around 7-9. I felt absolutely horrible. I feel much much better now that my free T level is normal. To me, the answer is simple for you, just get on TRT and feel better.

So let me ask you, are you hesitant to try TRT? At 52, and with your numbers/ symptoms, you are literally the perfect candidate for TRT. Are you just checking to see if there is anything you can do on your own naturally to raise your free T and resolve your symptoms? If so, that’s completely understandable. But in my opinion, there just ain’t anything you can really do to resolve your symptoms on your own. I know it sucks, trust me, at 27-28 I tried to do everything imagineable to avoid TRT. But don’t look at that as a negative. Now that I’ve been on TRT for a while, I realize that TRT was one of the best things that ever happened to me. Look at gettjng on TRT as a huge positive, not a negative.

Thanks for elaborating, this is helpful. To answer your question, yes I am hesitant to jump into TRT. I have read the good and the bad, but what seems to a constant (I may be wrong) is the chronic tweaking of dosing involved. Yes, some seem to get dialed in, but it seems its always involves moving doses up and down and adding things taking away things and feeling shitty while doing so. My biggest concern is TRT making things worse, lots of horror stories out there. Part of me wants to just jump in and do it, and part of me is very hesitant. I do realize this is part of the risk, but yes I am hoping perhaps to do this naturally. What I am trying to learn is why does my body prefer to bind up my free T, as my TT is not too bad. Learning is always the first step.

 

[JayLay777]

Thanks for elaborating, this is helpful. To answer your question, yes I am hesitant to jump into TRT. I have read the good and the bad, but what seems to a constant (I may be wrong) is the chronic tweaking of dosing involved. Yes, some seem to get dialed in, but it seems its always involves moving doses up and down and adding things taking away things and feeling shitty while doing so. My biggest concern is TRT making things worse, lots of horror stories out there. Part of me wants to just jump in and do it, and part of me is very hesitant. I do realize this is part of the risk, but yes I am hoping perhaps to do this naturally. What I am trying to learn is why does my body prefer to bind up my free T, as my TT is not too bad. Learning is always the first step.

I have have high SHBG like you with a decent total test in the 500-700 range. Most of my testoserone is bound up due to my high SHBG in the 50's.

I am only 27 and i am hesitant to start TRT as well but I think its the only way around high SHBG as i have tried all I can to lower it naturally and nothing really works and if it does work it does not last long and is only temporary. You can try possibly doing a short term TRT protocol for a while to try and lower you're SHBG from the outside testosterone and do a restart to see if you're SHBG stays down. That might be something you could discuss with you're doctor. I'm actually thinking about trying that but I heard SHBG would probably creep back up to where it was at prior to treatment.

 

[Dansk]

I have have high SHBG like you with a decent total test in the 500-700 range. Most of my testoserone is bound up due to my high SHBG in the 50's.

I am only 27 and i am hesitant to start TRT as well but I think its the only way around high SHBG as i have tried all I can to lower it naturally and nothing really works and if it does work it does not last long and is only temporary. You can try possibly doing a short term TRT protocol for a while to try and lower you're SHBG from the outside testosterone and do a restart to see if you're SHBG stays down. That might be something you could discuss with you're doctor. I'm actually thinking about trying that but I heard SHBG would probably creep back up to where it was at prior to treatment.

what where your methods to lower SHBG?

 

[JayLay777]

what where your methods to lower SHBG?

I tried stinging nettle,boron,DHEA, vitamin D, and Tribulus and they didn’t work. I think boron worked a little but it was short lived and didn’t resolve any symptoms.

 

[Gman86]

Ya my story mimics Jaylay777’s pretty much to a T. Was 27, had total T in the 600-700 range, SHBG in the 50’s, and very low free T. Tried everything I could to lower SHBG, just couldn’t make it budge. I’m 32 now, and been on HRT ever since. Started with HCG mono, have done clomid mono, and now on testosterone with HCG. I prefer testosterone and HCG over the other two options.

To answer your question, there’s no definitive answer to why all of us have high SHBG levels that like to bind up our free T. Could be environmental factors, or xenoestrogens in all the products we use, or all the stuff in our food. Who knows. No use worrying about it though. Not much we can do to lower it, trust me, I’ve tried.

And don’t be so hesitant. The reason people have to go up and down in their protocols, is because they are inpatient, and start with too high of a dose, or make too big of adjustments, or add too many things at one time, or implement ai’s when they shouldn’t of. All you have to do to have success is start with a low dose of testosterone only, and see how you do. Get labs done after 2 months, adjust testosterone dose up if needed, get labs done in another 2 months, adjust dose up if needed, and just keep repeating this until you feel optimal. Starting low and going slow is the way to go. This way, you will not need to go up and down in your protocol. This way just takes patience, which not many have, including myself. I’m a very inpatient person, so I understand why people go up and down in their protocols trying to figure out the quick solution. But if you start low and go slow you’ll be fine.

 

[madman]

Thanks for elaborating, this is helpful. To answer your question, yes I am hesitant to jump into TRT. I have read the good and the bad, but what seems to a constant (I may be wrong) is the chronic tweaking of dosing involved. Yes, some seem to get dialed in, but it seems its always involves moving doses up and down and adding things taking away things and feeling shitty while doing so. My biggest concern is TRT making things worse, lots of horror stories out there. Part of me wants to just jump in and do it, and part of me is very hesitant. I do realize this is part of the risk, but yes I am hoping perhaps to do this naturally. What I am trying to learn is why does my body prefer to bind up my free T, as my TT is not too bad. Learning is always the first step.

Depends on the individual and their expectations going into it and being treated by a knowledgeable doctor who is experienced with trt will make a huge difference on what the road ahead looks like.

Being treated by the right doctor is half the battle.

Sure it is easy to be doubtful as no one can say for sure how things will turn out for you.

Just know that there can be ups/downs in the beginning and throughout for some but it is no reason to doubt whether it will benefit you as if you are suffering from low t than it is worth trying as your health and well being should be of the utmost importance.....you as an individual deserve that!

You can read/learn as much as possible but regardless of others experiences on trt whether positive or negative.....you will truly never know unless you decide to try it.

If anything you will have to invest time into giving it a chance if you choose to start trt but in the end if things do not work out than you can always stop and go back to your pre-trt baseline testosterone levels.

I have just come up on my 2 year mark on trt.

Trust me in the beginning I had my doubts about using exogenous T.....let alone shutting down my hpta (endogenous levels) but my TT was sub-par in the low 300s and my FT was low.

I was depressed/anxious felt lethargic and had no energy, no libido and although I never had ed issues, nocturnal and spontaneous erections were far and few.

I have been on testosterone only.....no a.i. and no hcg.

There were many ups/downs in the beginning but I toughed it out and as time went on things improved eventually to the point where it had a strong beneficial effect on my mood/energy/libido/erections/body composition/strength and recovery.

I could not be happier in my case and would never look back and am so thankful that I made the decision to start trt.

 

[Gman86]

Depends on the individual and their expectations going into it and being treated by a knowledgeable doctor who is experienced with trt will make a huge difference on what the road ahead looks like.

Being treated by the right doctor is half the battle.

Sure it is easy to be doubtful as no one can say for sure how things will turn out for you.

Just know that there can be ups/downs in the beginning and throughout for some but it is no reason to doubt whether it will benefit you as if you are suffering from low t than it is worth trying as your health and well being should be of the utmost importance.....you as an individual deserve that!

You can read/learn as much as possible but regardless of others experiences on trt whether positive or negative.....you will truly never know unless you decide to try it.

If anything you will have to invest time into giving it a chance if you choose to start trt but in the end if things do not work out than you can always stop and go back to your pre-trt baseline testosterone levels.

I have just come up on my 2 year mark on trt.

Trust me in the beginning I had my doubts about using exogenous T.....let alone shutting down my hpta (endogenous levels) but my TT was sub-par in the low 300s and my FT was low.

I was depressed/anxious felt lethargic and had no energy, no libido and although I never had ed issues, nocturnal and spontaneous erections were far and few.

I have been on testosterone only.....no a.i. and no hcg.

There were many ups/downs in the beginning but I toughed it out and as time went on things improved eventually to the point where it had a strong beneficial effect on my mood/energy/libido/erections/body composition/strength and recovery.

I could not be happier in my case and would never look back and am so thankful that I made the decision to start trt.

Great post and story Madman. Quick question, were there a lot of ups and downs at the beginning for you because you were experimenting with different testosterone dosages during that time, or do you think it was more of a case of your body just needing time to adjust to the new testosterone levels to feel good?

 

[madman]

Great post and story Madman. Quick question, were there a lot of ups and downs at the beginning for you because you were experimenting with different testosterone dosages during that time, or do you think it was more of a case of your body just needing time to adjust to the new testosterone levels to feel good?

Definitely!

For the first 8 weeks I was on 100mg/week of Depo-Testosterone (cypionate) strictly sub-q abdominal fat.

Blood work at 8 weeks my TT/FT were still sub-par at trough and although my TT went from low 300s----->480 and my FT came up some, there were mild improvements although I felt as if I was crashing by day 4.....overall I did not feel great and knew I had to get my TT/FT levels up.

Dose was increased and it was a big jump to 150mg/week of Delatestryl (enanthate) which I split into 75mg every 3.5 days.


The main reason for switching from cypionate to enanthate was in Canada cypionate is only prescribed in 100 mg/ml strength as oppose to enanthate which is 200 mg/ml and it is much easier using enanthate as less volume of the oily solution needs to be injected due to the higher strength/ml.


Lets just say there was no looking back after that as there was a huge improvement in my mood/energy/libido/nocturnal and spontaneous erections and I gained some muscle/strength )(added 30lbs to my bench/squat and increased poundage on all my other lifts.....wished I were still deadlifting!) and recovery from exercise was greatly improved.

There were still up/downs throughout the first 2-3 months regarding libido and erections but as time went on everything became more consistent overall.

I have been on the exact same protocol for 2 years now (2 months when I started on 100mg/week and the last 18 months 75mg every 3.5 days) strictly sub-q injected into abdominal fat.....never experienced any high e2 side effects and have never used an aromatase inhibitor or hcg.

 

[madman]

Great post and story Madman. Quick question, were there a lot of ups and downs at the beginning for you because you were experimenting with different testosterone dosages during that time, or do you think it was more of a case of your body just needing time to adjust to the new testosterone levels to feel good?

I feel that too many men on trt tweak their protocol too often without giving the body a chance to adjust to the new testosterone level as whenever one changes dose whether increasing or decreasing..... blood levels are in flux for 6 weeks before reaching steady state and too many judge the 6 weeks as if major changes should take place as oppose to getting through the 6 week flux and than staying at those levels for 2-3 months before truly gauging how your body reacts overall to your new levels.

The 6 week flux can make many anxious and quick to react if things do not turn out as expected.

Even if one is using hcg or an aromatase inhibitor (hopefully not needed and if it is than used sensibly) many do not give it a chance and start manipulating things too quickly.

As we know always start low and go slow and patience is key!

 

[Tommy Wall]

Madman if you don´t mind me asking why do you not use Hcg knowing its benefits?