Madman mTOR and AMPK

[themud]

AMPK inhibits mTOR, but is this something that is a mute point on TRT?

Basically can someone do hard long cardio and gain muscle through a heavy lifting program?

From my research LISS is ok, but HIIT will impact mTOR.

If mixing HIIT and lifting, HIIT should be done on off days, not at all or done before heavy lifting (which is very hard because it's taxing).

If mTOR is regulated by protein synthesis and test increases protein synthesis can HIIT (increased AMPK) be done after heavy lifting and NOT have an impact on inhibiting mTOR?

 

[madman]

AMPK inhibits mTOR, but is this something that is a mute point on TRT?

Basically can someone do hard long cardio and gain muscle through a heavy lifting program?

From my research LISS is ok, but HIIT will impact mTOR.

If mixing HIIT and lifting, HIIT should be done on off days, not at all or done before heavy lifting (which is very hard because it's taxing).

If mTOR is regulated by protein synthesis and test increases protein synthesis can HIIT (increased AMPK) be done after heavy lifting and NOT have an impact on inhibiting mTOR?

Ideally if your goal is gaining muscle mass than not only is having optimal testosterone levels beneficial in the overall picture but as you know diet is critical to ones progress as not only will one need to be in a caloric surplus but one will also need to consume the minimum daily protein requirements along with enough of the other macros carbs/fats.

If ones goal is to maximize muscle/strength gains than cardio should be kept to a minimum and not overdone as it can be counter productive to muscle/strength gains depending on the volume of cardiovascular exercise done.





Here is a great video with Eric Helms explaining the most recent study regarding HIT and MICT (moderate intensity continuous training) effects on strength/hypertrophy

LISS is also discussed mainly towards the end of the video.

Some take home points:

Mitigate Interference Globally

- worst thing cardio right before you lift
- next best weights/than cardio
- better 6 hrs apart or on separate days
- best minimize cardio (depending on goals)



- HIT sprint intervals on bike/cycling are problematic compared to MICT

- compared MICT to HIT sprints on a bike and they found that sprinting decreased hypertrophy and strength more or had larger interference effect than moderate intensity

- most likely comes down to not the molecular differences but the fatigue caused by it

- HIT resulted in less strength/muscle gain (more signs of an interference)

 

[madman]

CONCLUSION This is the first report of the effects of incorporating either HIT or work-matched MICT into a concurrent training program on adaptations of maximal strength, CMJ performance, aerobic capacity, and body composition compared with performing RT alone. In summary, it was demonstrated that HIT and MICT similarly attenuated the RT-induced increase in maximal lower-, but not upper-body, strength, as well as increases in peak CMJ force and power. These observations suggest that endurance training volume may be a more critical mediator of interference to maximal strength gain rather than training intensity, at least in moderately-trained individuals. Training induced increases in lower-body lean mass were attenuated for the HIT+RT group relative to MICT+RT and RT, although the magnitude of between-group differences in lean mass gain were small. Total internal training load was higher for the HIT+RT group compared with the MICT+RT group, due primarily to a higher non-prescribed training load, which may have contributed to the attenuation of the lower-body lean mass gain for the HIT+RT group. Future work should further explore the role of endurance training volume in the interference effect, and whether low-volume HIT may confer benefits by minimizing interference when compared with higher volume HIT or MICT during periods of concurrent training.

 

[DragonBits]

madman, what is the reason one needs to be in caloric surplus while gaining muscle mass, which implies one will gain some fat during the process.

I would have thought one could balance your calories to just meet your body's need to build muscle.

Is it the case of better to go over (caloric surplus) than too little, or do you temporary need more calories, meaning when the muscles are being rebuilt. Was there some sort of study done?

 

[themud]

Madman,

Thank you for your research.

What if someone is on TRT or to the extreme AAS?

Dragon bits,

I have gained significant strength on a calorie deficit.

I follow Martin Berkhan's leangains. Doing 16 hour fast wasn't enough for me. Switched to 18-23 hours and I can almost (almost) eat what and how much I want.

My BF is down, but my question to Madman was because I would like to start hitting the trails running.

My old ultrmarathon training was only 25-45 miles per week. Running t/th and Saturday only. With Saturday being 16-30 miles.

At 5/8 170 and below 10% bf it would be awesome.

 

[themud]

I did a double marathon once and the winner looked about my height, but no way was he under 195 lbs. His brother won the marathon and he looked like a typical marathoner.

 

[madman]

madman, what is the reason one needs to be in caloric surplus while gaining muscle mass, which implies one will gain some fat during the process.

I would have thought one could balance your calories to just meet your body's need to build muscle.

Is it the case of better to go over (caloric surplus) than too little, or do you temporary need more calories, meaning when the muscles are being rebuilt. Was there some sort of study done?

It is very rare to gain pure muscle without adding some fat and the goal would be to limit fat gain when trying to add muscle.

The calories needed to build a pound of muscle would not be extreme and I would say 200 calories above maintenance would be effective but you also have to factor in ones metabolism and energy expenditure from other activities as some men may need to increase calories further in order to gain.

On average many usually increase calories 200-500/day when trying to add muscle mass and unless you have a fast metabolism (hardgainer) or burn up excess energy doing other activities than 200 cal/day above maintenance would be enough.

Naturally you can only add muscle so fast and if you ramp up your calories too high thinking your are going to force muscle growth than you will just end up adding extra fat.

Sure many can increase calories well over maintenance thinking they are packing on muscle mass when in fact a large percentage of the weight gain is water/glycogen/fat as oppose to muscle tissue (actin/myosin).

Unfortunately building pure muscle tissue is a slow process unless one uses/abuses testosterone/AAS and even than although muscle growth is accelerated at a more rapid rate it still takes some time.

 

[madman]

Madman,

Thank you for your research.

What if someone is on TRT or to the extreme AAS?

Dragon bits,

I have gained significant strength on a calorie deficit.

I follow Martin Berkhan's leangains. Doing 16 hour fast wasn't enough for me. Switched to 18-23 hours and I can almost (almost) eat what and how much I want.

My BF is down, but my question to Madman was because I would like to start hitting the trails running.

My old ultrmarathon training was only 25-45 miles per week. Running t/th and Saturday only. With Saturday being 16-30 miles.

At 5/8 170 and below 10% bf it would be awesome.

When on trt and one achieves healthy testosterone levels it will definitely have a positive effect on body composition (muscle gain/fat loss) and increased recovery from exercise as long as a proper diet/training protocol is followed but do not expect significant gains in muscle or wolverine like recovery abilities like one would see when using/abusing testosterone/AAS.

Most on trt are using 100-150 mg/week (common) and of course there are others using 200 mg/week and although there will be definite improvements seen in muscle/strength gains and recovery when implementing a proper diet/training protocol it will be average compared to one using/abusing steroids.

As in order to truly experience significant gains in muscle/strength than one would need to use/abuse testosterone/AAS and the doses of testosterone used would be in the 300-600 mg/week range and even than gains would be more significant using doses in the higher end 500-600 mg/week.