Looking for HCG Advice with Doctor

[stevep]

I'd like to ask for your help with a conversation I'll be having with a new doctor next week about HCG. But first a little background.

I've been on TRT for 2 years: T-Enanthate, 200mg, 1cc every 14 days. About a year ago I told my DR. I've noticed my testicles seem to be smaller and softer than before I started treatment. He laughed it off and I kept bringing it up every visit and told him I wanted a referral and he finally at the 9 months point sent me to a Urologist. During the Urologist visit he said he doesn't treat for TRT, but was curious why I was sent to him since I made the trip. I explained what I understand about HCG and the studies I've read on the National Institute of Health. He found it interesting, but said there was nothing he would do for my shrinking balls. He recommended I stop taking the injections and find a Endocrinologist.

Since then I have fired my previous doctor, but not before getting a referral to an Endocrinologist which is in July. I have my first appointment with my new family doctor next week. When I explain my health conditions I plan to bring up my desire for HCG; bring my testicles back to (hopefully) normal size, sperm production, self confidence.

I'll be having two discussions about HCG. One with my new doctor next week and one in July with the Endocrinologist.

Do you have any advice on how to have the discussion about HCG where they take me seriously?

I'm assuming the new doctor will know nothing about HCG like my previous doctor. Assume the worse and hope for the best.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Vince Carter]

Most, if not all mainstream physicians are going to see it as an off-label use and not do it just for that reason alone, let alone the preconceived notion that TRT is voodoo to them. It's not like you can't get HCG in the grey market, either. But talk to them about organ failure, bring up your age and fertility, even if you don't want to have kids, bring it up.

 

[Vince]

Here's a good post to get all the information you need, you can also print it for your doctor. https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...e-Testicular-Shrinkage-and-Preserve-Fertility

 

[stevep]

Thanks guys. I've been going through the post finding some very good information. This is very helpful.

 

[Vettester Chris]

It just amazes me that so many educated physicians have zero (0) clue about how to treat patients needing HRT! Anyone could spend just a few hours here to get updated on half-life's and the effectiveness of various compounds, e.g., HCG, which clearly is a mimic analog of LH. It baffles me that there's a huge pool of doctors with 20+ years in the field, but they don't even understand the aromatization concept with Test to estrogen, and/or it isn't even a factor in how they view the process with their patients.

 

[stevep]

I gave my first doctor every chance to help me. Waited longer than I should have. When I first started with him I was taking 1/2cc every two weeks. I told him I didn't feel any different and he increased to 1cc which worked better. I requested to do 1/2cc every week do level out the highs and lows of the cycle and was told no. Then followed up a while later about testicle size. I saw him every 90 days and each time I brought it up. He wanted to ultra sound my testicles because there had to be something wrong. I printed out two HCG test with Test-E and that still didn't make a difference with him. I did get the Urologist referral after I gave him the reports, but he still wouldn't act on it.

They administered my shots, but I kept the vials with me. I noticed I was running out too soon. Come to find out they were injecting me with 2cc every 14 days the past few months. I couldn't figure out why my blood pressure was high and I was quick to snap or argue. I never thought to look at the syringe before receiving my shot. I asked the girl that normally gave me the shot and she said I only give what's prescribed in our system. I give my own shots now.

So now I'm between doctors until I meet the new Dr. next week. I live in a small town. I'll see how it turns out. I'm thinking I could take some of the HCG reports with me, but I don't want to insult her on my first visit either. I guess I can see how the conversation goes before pulling them out.

So Chris I feel or have felt your pain on educated, clueless doctors.

Again, I appreciate the information and input

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

I gave my first doctor every chance to help me. Waited longer than I should have. When I first started with him I was taking 1/2cc every two weeks. I told him I didn't feel any different and he increased to 1cc which worked better. I requested to do 1/2cc every week do level out the highs and lows of the cycle and was told no. Then followed up a while later about testicle size. I saw him every 90 days and each time I brought it up. He wanted to ultra sound my testicles because there had to be something wrong. I printed out two HCG test with Test-E and that still didn't make a difference with him. I did get the Urologist referral after I gave him the reports, but he still wouldn't act on it.

They administered my shots, but I kept the vials with me. I noticed I was running out too soon. Come to find out they were injecting me with 2cc every 14 days the past few months. I couldn't figure out why my blood pressure was high and I was quick to snap or argue. I never thought to look at the syringe before receiving my shot. I asked the girl that normally gave me the shot and she said I only give what's prescribed in our system. I give my own shots now.

So now I'm between doctors until I meet the new Dr. next week. I live in a small town. I'll see how it turns out. I'm thinking I could take some of the HCG reports with me, but I don't want to insult her on my first visit either. I guess I can see how the conversation goes before pulling them out.

So Chris I feel or have felt your pain on educated, clueless doctors.

Again, I appreciate the information and input

Good God...

Steve,

I really feel for you man. Your first doctor is an idiot (for lack of a better word), and isn't qualified to be treating you, since he is a clueless jackass masquerading as a physician. First off, he's got you on a single test injection every...excuse me...two weeks? That is an ancient protocol that no doctor with even a sliver of TRT knowledge would prescribe. He had you riding the Testosterone roller coaster, then had the gall to laugh at you when you brought up shrinking testicles? And on top of all this, you find out that they've been injecting you double the dose of test that you thought?

You've suffered enough Steve. You need a doctor that knows what the hell he is doing, and you're probably not going to find him/her at the general practitioner's office, or at any Endo's office. I hate to sound like a Defy Medical cheerleader here, but that's exactly where I'm going to point you, because you need their expertise now. Trust me, it will be the best move you ever make with regard to TRT.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Good God...

Steve,

I really feel for you man. Your first doctor is an idiot (for lack of a better word), and isn't qualified to be treating you, since he is a clueless jackass masquerading as a physician. First off, he's got you on a single test injection every...excuse me...two weeks? That is an ancient protocol that no doctor with even a sliver of TRT knowledge would prescribe. He had you riding the Testosterone roller coaster, then had the gall to laugh at you when you brought up shrinking testicles? And on top of all this, you find out that they've been injecting you double the dose of test that you thought?

You've suffered enough Steve. You need a doctor that knows what the hell he is doing, and you're probably not going to find him/her at the general practitioner's office, or at any Endo's office. I hate to sound like a Defy Medical cheerleader here, but that's exactly where I'm going to point you, because you need their expertise now. Trust me, it will be the best move you ever make with regard to TRT.

Just adding my voice to Jackie's and the others. You are to be commended for reading and learning what a hypogonadal man should expect from his doctor. Sadly, what you've encountered is hardly unique. Many, probably most, of us here at EM had to overcome obstacles that doctors put in our way. You deserve better, and as Jackie noted, there are options (Defy Medical being one).

 

[stevep]

Thanks for the feedback. I looked at the Defy Medical website this morning and that may be my only option. I'll see how my new doctor responds to my concerns next week. Also, I have the referral to an Endo the middle of July; which I'm guessing the new doctor will wait to hear back from before making a decision. Both of these appointments are covered on insurance. Heck, even the HCG is covered without any special justification/documentation according to my plan.

Again, thanks for the support/information. I'm glad I ran across this site.

 

[Re-Ride]

Steve, if you intend to keep the appointment with the new uro here are the pre-consultation questions you are inquiring about:

Hi doctor, Before we go ahead with a consultation I need to know if I'm in the right place.

Does exogenous testosterone impair my pituitary and/or hypothalamus from normal axis function with the testes? ( N = leave, Y= continue)

Is this axis impairment caused by decreased LH? (N= leave Y=continue)

Is my LH level low? (N or "it doesn't matter"=leave, Y=continue)

Is this low LH condition related to the testicular pain and atrophy I'm having? ( n or possibly= leave, Y= continue)

Is hCG an analogue of LH? ( any answer other than Yes, leave)

Here are studies demonstrating the usefulness of hCG in treating the pain and atrophy, Will you prescribe it? ( n= "Thank you, I do not wish a consultation at this time, Please be sure that your staff knows so that I am not billed if Yes ask about the dose and frequency prescribed and if it can be self-administered)

Patients as well as doctors are entitled to use a pre-visit questionnaire. You may type this up title it "Insurance Prior Authorization" and fax it in advance of your visit. This is an environmental conservation measure as it saves fuel and helps keep the planet green.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Download and print the two files attached to the first post here:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...e-Testicular-Shrinkage-and-Preserve-Fertility

Most doctors welcome written information. They are human beings who do not have time to keep updated specially on off-label uses that are not supported by pharmaceutical education efforts and CME classes.

 

[stevep]

These are great questions and I will prepare/ask prior to my appointment. I believe I saw a post on how to print. I'll make sure I print the thread Nelson provided to take along with me. Hopefully the new Dr. won't think she is above learning something she may not be aware of like my previous Doc. Thank you

 

[Nelson Vergel]

How to Print Factsheets for Your Doctor from ExcelMale.com

 

[stevep]

Finally I got an appointment with my new Doctor. We had a good discussion about my TRT and my reasons for wanting to try/add HCG. I have my referral with the Endo tomorrow AM. My new doctor is open to the idea, but wants to hear what the Endo says. She even went as far to say if it doesn't work out with the referral tomorrow she knows another Endo she can refer me to that will help.

I explained that I took it upon myself to change my dosage to 1/2 cc every 7 days vs. 1 cc every 14 days. She said I know my body better than anyone and if I'm feeling better then stick to it. (as long as lab results support it)

I'm looking forward to get my results from my blood test today and what the Endo says tomorrow. I'm going to remain optimistic.

 

[ERO]

Good luck and let us know how it goes. If they are not helping give Defy a call. Many of us here use and highly recommend them.

 

[CoastWatcher]

We all hope this works out as you want it to. All the best.

 

[stevep]

Met with the specialist this morning. It was great talking with a professional that listen and seemed knowledgeable. The good news is she has prescribed HCG to patients for the same purpose I went in for. She wanted to know the reasons I was started on TRT, what was the underlying reason for developing a testosterone deficiency. We discuss the entire previous 2 years. After covering all that she said there is a major concern, my red blood cell count as she phrased it "Through the ROOF" per the lab work of my previous doctor several months ago (who never discussed it with me).

She was upfront and said, "I know you don't want off TRT, but we have to get this under control because your a prime candidate to stroke out." She stated she needs find the cause first before doing anything, which is more than likely the Test E and the months my previous doctor over prescribed (2X) me.

So the game plan for today; lab work, review results Monday, and either take me off Test E for a couple months to see if there is a significant change or reduce the amount i'm taking weekly.

I offered to donate blood to get the immediate reduction, but she requested I wait until she reviews the lab work, but that may be an option next week.

I asked if she takes me off Test E for a couple months could I at least do the HCG and I got the "maybe answer". She said she needed to research and see if HCG injections has any affect on red blood cells. If not, it may be possible I'm at least getting a little testosterone while I'm cut off Test E.

She said IF the Test E wasn't going to be a good path for me then I could possibility change over to a patch which doesn't increase red blood cells as much. Also, she didn't schedule it, but I see a sleep apnea test coming my way.

It wasn't the results I was hoping for, but I'm glad I FINALLY got to see this doctor. Overall health is priority and she isn't ruling out TRT after we get the red blood cells down to a manageable level.

The sad thing is, she is moving to Florida soon. I'll have my follow up with her current partner; which she says is very good.

 

[ERO]

Seems strange that she did not write a script for a therapeutic phlebotomy (blood donation) if you are "through the roof" rather than wait a week for lab work. The results of your labs are important but they wont reduce your red cell count - only a donation or donations will do that. This would raise a red flag to me...

 

[stevep]

The results she was reading was from February/March timeframe. She wanted recent lab results to see what the numbers are today. I changed from the 2ml dosage every 14 days to 1/2ml every 7 days when I left my previous doctor 3 months ago. She hoping this has made a change, but won't know until she gets these results back Monday (at the latest).

I should have explained that better in the previous post.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Did the notion of a therapeutic phlebotomy resonate with her? Do you need to present her with backup as to it being an accepted, safe method of reducing your values?