Lab Results - 851 Test, low free test

[coolrunnings222]

Hi, I am a 33 almost 34 year old male and recently got lab work done along with a physical. I feel like I have been stressed out more because of work and trying to reduce my stress while keeping my health and well being up. I workout 3 to 5 days a week and love lifting. I am not on TRT as well. What are some things I can do to increase my free testosterone? I am trying to gain more muscle but have hit a road block. I weigh 182lbs and am 5' 10" tall with a 14% body fat. I know I need to eat more and should keep my stress in check. The blood was taken around 9AM. Here are my test results from lab corp along with the reference intervals:

Testosterone	851 ng/dL	264-916
Free Testosterone(Direct)	12.6 pg/mL	8.7-25.1
Cortisol	11.4 ug/dL	6.2-19.4
Estradiol	21.0 pg/mL	7.6-42.6
TSH	2.380 uIU/mL	0.450-4.500
Triiodothyronine (T3), Free	3.5 pg/mL	2.0-4.4
SHBG, Serum	62.2 nmol/L	16.5-55.9
Cholesterol, Total	208 mg/dL	100-199
Triglycerides	50 mg/dL	0-149
HDL Cholesterol	81 mg/dL	>39
VLDL Cholesterol Cal	9 mg/dL	5-40
LDL Chol Calc (NIH)	118 mg/dL	0-99
Creatinine	1.28 mg/dL	0.76-1.27
Glucose	97 mg/dL	70-99
Sodium	143 mmol/L	134-144
Potassium	4.7 mmol/L	3.5-5.2
Chloride	103 mmol/L	96-106
Protein, Total	7.0 g/dL	6.0-8.5
Carbon Dioxide, Total	27 mmol/L	20-29
Alkaline Phosphatase	71 IU/L	44-121

Thank you.

Cheers,
Matt.

 

[Cataceous]

That direct free testosterone test is useless; ignore it. Vermeulen calculated free testosterone — using default albumin — is 12.9 ng/dL. The healthy normal range is roughly 10-20 ng/dL. Do not worry about your testosterone at this level. However, estradiol is low relative to testosterone, which may be problematic. This is difficult to address directly, as forcing estradiol up will also lower testosterone. This improves the ratio, but could also push absolute testosterone too low. For now I'd just focus on diet to see if glucose and LDL can be improved. You might also check inflammatory markers such as CRP and homocysteine. A lipid particle count test would give further reassurance that the lowish estradiol is not harming your health.

 

[Systemlord]

What are some things I can do to increase my free testosterone?

SHBG binds Free T, deactivating it to prevent you from clearing it out. SHBG is Free T+SHBG = Total T.

Starvation diets, cutting can raise the SHBG.

I am trying to gain more muscle but have hit a road block.

Hitting a plateau gaining muscle may be the combination of training, genetics and diet.

 

[Vince]

I agree that your high shbg is lowering in your free testosterone. Make sure your magnesium levels are good and I will consider a low carb diet. It should help raise your free testosterone.

 

[madman]

Hi, I am a 33 almost 34 year old male and recently got lab work done along with a physical. I feel like I have been stressed out more because of work and trying to reduce my stress while keeping my health and well being up. I workout 3 to 5 days a week and love lifting. I am not on TRT as well. What are some things I can do to increase my free testosterone? I am trying to gain more muscle but have hit a road block. I weigh 182lbs and am 5' 10" tall with a 14% body fat. I know I need to eat more and should keep my stress in check. The blood was taken around 9AM. Here are my test results from lab corp along with the reference intervals:

Testosterone	851 ng/dL	264-916
Free Testosterone(Direct)	12.6 pg/mL	8.7-25.1
Cortisol	11.4 ug/dL	6.2-19.4
Estradiol	21.0 pg/mL	7.6-42.6
TSH	2.380 uIU/mL	0.450-4.500
Triiodothyronine (T3), Free	3.5 pg/mL	2.0-4.4
SHBG, Serum	62.2 nmol/L	16.5-55.9
Cholesterol, Total	208 mg/dL	100-199
Triglycerides	50 mg/dL	0-149
HDL Cholesterol	81 mg/dL	>39
VLDL Cholesterol Cal	9 mg/dL	5-40
LDL Chol Calc (NIH)	118 mg/dL	0-99
Creatinine	1.28 mg/dL	0.76-1.27
Glucose	97 mg/dL	70-99
Sodium	143 mmol/L	134-144
Potassium	4.7 mmol/L	3.5-5.2
Chloride	103 mmol/L	96-106
Protein, Total	7.0 g/dL	6.0-8.5
Carbon Dioxide, Total	27 mmol/L	20-29
Alkaline Phosphatase	71 IU/L	44-121

Thank you.








Cheers,
Matt.

To know where your FT level truly sits you would need to have it tested using an accurate assay such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best) especially in cases of altered SHBG.

Unfortunately you had it tested using the known to be inaccurate direct immunoassay.

If you do not have access to such assays than for the time being your best bet would be using the linear law-of-mass action cFTV which even with a high-end TT 851 ng/dL, high SHBG 62.2 nmol/L and default Albumin 4.3g/dL would have your FT as Cataceous stated sitting at 12.9 ng/dL which is in a healthy range.

Keep in mind as of now cFTV tends to overestimate so chances are your FT level would be lower if you had it tested using an accurate assay.

Even then doubtful it would be low.

As you should very well know when it comes to gaining muscle/improving body composition following a proper diet/training protocol is key.

Your overall lifestyle will have a big impact.

Sleep, diet, exercise, minimizing stress (physical/mental) will all have a big impact on your progress.

Even than when it comes to how much muscle you can attain naturally your genetics will have the final say.

Extremely low FREE T conversion 0.14%. Why is that?

Hello, Started TRT 2 months ago, 120/week split in 2pins. My blood test came back today. Here is a before and after: Test: 383 -> 735 Ng/Dl Free Test: 7.1 -> 12.8 Pg/Ml Conversion: 0.185% -> 0.136% SHBG: 23 -> 16.9 Nmol/L Albumin: 5.4 -> 4.7 G/Dl Started with extremely low conversion...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Cataceous]

I agree that your high shbg is lowering in your free testosterone. ...

I'm dismayed to see you writing this. We've been discussing this subject for years now. There's no evidence that isolated differences in SHBG have a significant effect on the level of free testosterone. In the OP's case his body is regulating for its preferred level of free — not total — testosterone, and that level appears to be normal.

 

[Vince]

I'm dismayed to see you writing this. We've been discussing this subject for years now. There's no evidence that isolated differences in SHBG have a significant effect on the level of free testosterone. In the OP's case his body is regulating for its preferred level of free — not total — testosterone, and that level appears to be normal.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm just posting what I do to keep my free I want T in a good range.

Vince Shares his Daily Testosterone plus DHEA and Pregnenolone Results

My protocol, same as last labs. 16 mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500 iu of hcg twice weekly and no AI. Pregnenolone 10 mg and 25 mg of DHEA. My last injection before labs, about 28 hr.s. Testosterone, Total, LC/MS, 1035.9 High ng/dL 264.0-916.0 Testosterone, Free 33.77...

www.excelmale.com

 

[sammmy]

The creatinine is kind of high. Do you eat a lot of meat, take a lot of creatine supplement, or protein shakes?

Note to others: notice how the Free Testosterone(Direct) has yet again wrong units: it should be ng/dL not pg/mL (1 pg/mL = 0.1 ng/dL). This a repeating theme with the immunoassays.

 

[Cataceous]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm just posting what I do to keep my free I want T in a good range.

Vince Shares his Daily Testosterone plus DHEA and Pregnenolone Results

My protocol, same as last labs. 16 mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500 iu of hcg twice weekly and no AI. Pregnenolone 10 mg and 25 mg of DHEA. My last injection before labs, about 28 hr.s. Testosterone, Total, LC/MS, 1035.9 High ng/dL 264.0-916.0 Testosterone, Free 33.77...

www.excelmale.com

According to your thread your free T is actually well above a good range, "33.77 High ng/dL 5.00-21.00". I would discourage others, and especially those new to TRT, from following your lead.

In any case, rather than expressing sorrow that I disagree with your statement about SHBG affecting free testosterone, why not either support your position with some evidence or else acknowledge that you have none? It is your dose of testosterone and not your SHBG that is driving your free testosterone.

 

[Vince]

According to your thread your free T is actually well above a good range, "33.77 High ng/dL 5.00-21.00". I would discourage others, and especially those new to TRT, from following your lead.

In any case, rather than expressing sorrow that I disagree with your statement about SHBG affecting free testosterone, why not either support your position with some evidence or else acknowledge that you have none? It is your dose of testosterone and not your SHBG that is driving your free testosterone.

I'm sure you read how magnesium helps increase free. Testosterone. And I have posted on it. I do believe that it helps me a lot in my high levels of free Testosterone.

I'm sorry I don't have more time to work on Excelmale. I work full time. Have five kids. My wife has four and we have many grandkids. Plus I have my 90-year-old mother to help out with so I am a very busy man. Plus being busy makes me feel good. I feel that I'm contributing a lot to this world. And fortunately I keep TRT simple and it's easy for me. I know you have many struggles with TRT and it hasn't been easy for you and you have made it worked for you.

 

[Vince]

Effects of magnesium supplementation on testosterone levels of athletes and sedentary subjects at rest and after exhaustion - PubMed

This study was performed to assess how 4 weeks of magnesium supplementation and exercise affect the free and total plasma testosterone levels of sportsmen practicing tae kwon do and sedentary controls at rest and after exhaustion. The testosterone levels were determined at four different...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Will Magnesium Actually Boost My Testosterone? | Scientific Studies and Evidence – Great Green Wall

www.greatgreenwall.org

The Interplay between Magnesium and Testosterone in Modulating Physical Function in Men - PMC

The role of nutritional status as key factor of successful aging is very well recognized. Among the different mechanisms by which nutrients may exert their beneficial effects is the modulation of the hormonal anabolic milieu, which is significantly ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Vince]

Can Zinc Treat Low Testosterone?

www.healthline.com

 

[Vince]

Does magnesium decrease SHBG?


And the SHBG bond tying up our testosterone is quite strongly. That's where Magnesium comes in–it weakens the bond, making even our bound testosterone more bioavailable. Interestingly, Magnesium in women actually lowers testosterone, especially if they're at risk of Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS).May 1, 2023

Great Green Wall – Growing a Healthy Wonder - Great Green Wall › m...

Will Magnesium Actually Boost My Testosterone? | Scientific Studies and ...​

 

[Vince]

Zinc lowers the binding affinity and magnesium has been found to decrease the affinity of SHBG to testosterone.

Bro Research | Coach with Confidence. › into-the-w...

Into the Weeds with Sex Hormone Binding Globulin - Bro Research​

 

[tareload]

Wow it was good to read this exchange. Gives me more motivation to do a complete set of experiments with stanozolol where I use say 0, 12.5, 25 and 50 mg/day in say 2 weeks intervals. The whole time I will use the same Test dosing. Will run TT/FT with DiscountedLabs LCMS+equilibrium dialysis panel. Hypothesis is that methodically moving SHBG lower in steps will not influence FT only TT.

Of course I did this once before with oxandrolone but did not use LCMS for TT and estimated FT using cFTV. Last time FT was invariant to SHBG on constant T dose. Hypothesis would be same this go around.

Critique / feedback on DOE? Anyone want to make a wager?

We as a collective group really need to put this to bed or someone please provide evidence to the contrary. This idea that lowering SHBG frees up more T needs to die a quicker death. I am happy to assist and will bust my lipids for a few weeks to provide rock solid data set.

 

[tareload]

Hi, I am a 33 almost 34 year old male and recently got lab work done along with a physical. I feel like I have been stressed out more because of work and trying to reduce my stress while keeping my health and well being up. I workout 3 to 5 days a week and love lifting. I am not on TRT as well. What are some things I can do to increase my free testosterone? I am trying to gain more muscle but have hit a road block. I weigh 182lbs and am 5' 10" tall with a 14% body fat. I know I need to eat more and should keep my stress in check. The blood was taken around 9AM. Here are my test results from lab corp along with the reference intervals:

Testosterone	851 ng/dL	264-916
Free Testosterone(Direct)	12.6 pg/mL	8.7-25.1
Cortisol	11.4 ug/dL	6.2-19.4
Estradiol	21.0 pg/mL	7.6-42.6
TSH	2.380 uIU/mL	0.450-4.500
Triiodothyronine (T3), Free	3.5 pg/mL	2.0-4.4
SHBG, Serum	62.2 nmol/L	16.5-55.9
Cholesterol, Total	208 mg/dL	100-199
Triglycerides	50 mg/dL	0-149
HDL Cholesterol	81 mg/dL	>39
VLDL Cholesterol Cal	9 mg/dL	5-40
LDL Chol Calc (NIH)	118 mg/dL	0-99
Creatinine	1.28 mg/dL	0.76-1.27
Glucose	97 mg/dL	70-99
Sodium	143 mmol/L	134-144
Potassium	4.7 mmol/L	3.5-5.2
Chloride	103 mmol/L	96-106
Protein, Total	7.0 g/dL	6.0-8.5
Carbon Dioxide, Total	27 mmol/L	20-29
Alkaline Phosphatase	71 IU/L	44-121

Thank you.



Cheers,
Matt.

Your trig/hdl-c ratio is excellent. NMR lipid panel should confirm your lipid particle counts are also excellent. Well done!

Stay away from exogenous Test with your numbers (don't break what ain't broken).

 

[Cataceous]

I'm sure you read how magnesium helps increase free. Testosterone. And I have posted on it. I do believe that it helps me a lot in my high levels of free Testosterone.
...

Suppose it's plausible that magnesium boosts endogenous testosterone production. How is this relevant to you as a guy on TRT? Changing SHBG's binding affinities also does not affect the basic argument that free testosterone is relatively independent of SHBG.

... I am a very busy man. ...

That's fine, but if you're going to comment authoritatively then it is your responsibility to have an understanding of the subject.

 

[Vince]

Suppose it's plausible that magnesium boosts endogenous testosterone production. How is this relevant to you as a guy on TRT? Changing SHBG's binding affinities also does not affect the basic argument that free testosterone is relatively independent of SHBG.


That's fine, but if you're going to comment authoritatively then it is your responsibility to have an understanding of the subject.

Much better, SHBG bond tying up our testosterone is quite strongly. Like I said, keep it simple.

 

[tareload]

Much better, SHBG bond tying up our testosterone is quite strongly. Like I said, keep it simple.

?? Incoherent.

Obviously it is not simple hence the many years of debate and confusion. If you are busy why spend part of whatever time you do have on here adding to the confusion and misinformation? And you are not the only one but as a Mod you are looked to as a reasonably trustworthy resource. But if Nelson also making the same error then we can't just pick on you. Why don't we all make another new thread and spend even more time laying this out for the 2002nd time LOL.

There was another thread that @Nelson Vergel posted where this same issue was brought up and I don't think was ever resolved. Perhaps move all this over there and let EM be a place where this issue can be properly covered for folks?

@Cataceous obviously I am now working on a ban here but it would be a disservice to your painstaking work to not make this a hill to die on. EM is a beacon of light in the TRT forum space so it should get these details correct as best as we can know them.

reader see here:

SHBG and Free Testosterone - Everything You Need to Know

Table of Contents Testosterone Fractions in Men How SHBG Influences Free Testosterone What Factors Influence Your SHBG Levels? How Do You Know if Your SHBG Levels Are High? How to Lower SHBG and Automatically Increase Free Testosterone Levels? Raise Your Total Testosterone Level Lower Your...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Cataceous]

...
Critique / feedback on DOE?
...

It seems solid to me. I trust the durations and doses are low enough that the subject wouldn't get into trouble?

For the purpose of persuasion it would also be nice to be able to inject some SHBG and then take measurements every few days as the serum level drops to baseline. However, this may be more complicated than it sounds, starting with just obtaining some pharma-grade SHBG. Then I wonder if there would there be any problems with IM or SC injection versus the ideal IV administration? How large is the initial transient effect and how long does it last? Would the suppression of endogenous SHBG production have any confounding effects?

Unfortunately argument from authority works even when it's fallacious. To make better headway with this subject we would have to pin down some bigger names and force them to consider it in depth. But these are also busy people, so easier said than done.

... I am now working on a ban here ...

Doubtful. Nothing applies except maybe 12, and none of that could be construed as advertising.

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