Is my body adjusting?

[rhino5169]

Ok, so i've posted asking for help with a couple other issues but this is new and separate from those other ongoing things.

So i've been on trt for 4.5 months.
2 months ago I started np thyroid 1 grain daily. Within 3-4 days noticed mild improvement and within a week or 2 HUGE improvement and thats how it has stayed until recently.

Before the thyroid med i'd wake up tired around 8, 9 on weekends and kind of drag ass from 3pm on and be in bed around 7pm, just doing what i needed to get done that day, no more, sometimes less.

After the med kicked in I wake up between 5 - 5:30 am, refreshed, ready to tackle the day which I do. Work all day and when home do work around the yard, etc. I basically just keep going, not like im running a marathon but more like I just have an endless steady supply of just the right amount of energy. Getting to bed around 10pm.

Its life changing, for real. Quality of life much better and way better than trt alone.

Ok so that's the backdrop.

For the past few days i've not been getting up refreshed and the last couple of days woke up 5 - 5:30 took a shower then went back to bed for a couple of hours. Getting in bed around 8 or so.
So things seem to be slipping backwards a little bit.

I'm not sure if my body has adjusted to the thyroid med and maybe need to increase the dose, but my Defy consult isnt for over another week.

The only changes I have made is in the last week I started taking
Iron supplemt (blood builder for low iron and ferritin)
calcium D glucarate,
grape seed extract
zinc to try and lower my E (48). Not sure what role that plays into this though.

Any thoughts?

 

[Vince]

You could just order a full thyroid panel and see your numbers. My other thought is could the np thyroid 1 grain had a placebo effect?

 

[rhino5169]

I just edited my original post I forgot to include the iron supplement.

First, no placebo effect. I know it has to be mentioned but for myself I dont fall prey to that. My body / metabolism has been bad for so long and i've used more supplements than everyone I know put together. That plus the fact before my body went downhill I was an exercise enthuist, so I know my body extremely well and I know the physiological changes vs placebo.

So for thyroid panel, that is a good suggestion that I didnt think of. I had one done before I started the thyroid med but maybe it's time for another so I can see if anything changed. Thinking forward, what if it is changing but wont show much of a difference in the lab report. Meaning I can feel the change starting to happen but blood work will only show a minor change or do I wait another few weeks for lab work?

 

[Vince]

If you have been on thyroid meds for two months, I would have the labs now. There's another thread I've been on today you may like to look over, if you haven't already.
Switching From Synthroid to Naturethroid
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11203-Switching-From-Synthroid-to-Naturethroid

 

[johndoesmith]

First, no placebo effect. I know it has to be mentioned but for myself I dont fall prey to that. My body / metabolism has been bad for so long and i've used more supplements than everyone I know put together. That plus the fact before my body went downhill I was an exercise enthuist, so I know my body extremely well and I know the physiological changes vs placebo.

Oh.

Thyroid hormones bind to nuclear receptors, much like testosterone does, and take about 6 weeks to show effects.

Chances are that what you experienced was a placebo, and now that has worn off, you don't feel as good. This happens with TRT as well. The descriptions almost always have the same experiences:

• person reports feeling better nearly immediately after first dose
• feels great within a week or so
• usually it's energy levels and mood that is significantly improved
• person has been suffering for a while
• person insists they are somehow not susceptible to the placebo effect, often defensively
• then they crash after 1 month and wonder what happened

There's nothing wrong with being susceptible to the placebo effect. It's part of being human.

 

[ratbag]

The only changes I have made is in the last week I started taking
Iron supplemt (blood builder for low iron and ferritin)
calcium D glucarate,
grape seed extract
zinc to try and lower my E (48). Not sure what role that plays into this though.
Any thoughts?

Are you aware that you cannot take Iron or Calcium within 3-4 hours of taking thyroid meds. As this will negate the effects of the thyroid meds. This is a well known issue in the thyroid world. Something my MD has told me to be very careful of.

Also I believe STTM (stop the thyroid madness) site now claims that 1st timers should have a starting dose greater than 1 grain (60mg) Their reasoning is exactly what you described, one grain fizzles out fast. However getting your labs FT3 + FT4 at this point can only help pinpoint on the direction you need to go. Goodluck!

 

[rhino5169]

Oh.

Thyroid hormones bind to nuclear receptors, much like testosterone does, and take about 6 weeks to show effects.

Chances are that what you experienced was a placebo, and now that has worn off, you don't feel as good. This happens with TRT as well. The descriptions almost always have the same experiences:

• person reports feeling better nearly immediately after first dose
• feels great within a week or so
• usually it's energy levels and mood that is significantly improved
• person has been suffering for a while
• person insists they are somehow not susceptible to the placebo effect, often defensively
• then they crash after 1 month and wonder what happened

There's nothing wrong with being susceptible to the placebo effect. It's part of being human.

Ok I agree that nothing wrong with it, but ill stand by its not placebo effect.
I dont see how placebo effect can make you work and have energy like you never had in 15 years. I've had chronic fatigue, and I dont think a placebo is going to make physiological differences like that. Maybe with some things it make make you FEEL better in your mind, but this is physical.
On top of that, i've taken many things without the so called placebo effect, so when something really does work, I know it.

Not being argumentative, just saying.

 

[rhino5169]

Are you aware that you cannot take Iron or Calcium within 3-4 hours of taking thyroid meds. As this will negate the effects of the thyroid meds. This is a well known issue in the thyroid world. Something my MD has told me to be very careful of.

Also I believe STTM (stop the thyroid madness) site now claims that 1st timers should have a starting dose greater than 1 grain (60mg) Their reasoning is exactly what you described, one grain fizzles out fast. However getting your labs FT3 + FT4 at this point can only help pinpoint on the direction you need to go. Goodluck!

No, I was not aware of that! Though I knew not to eat for 1-2 hours after taking thyroid I was taking my iron at the same time, and double dose.

I now have some learning to do tonight on this. Hoping this is it and will separate these immediately.
Very grateful for that info, thank you ratbag.

 

[rhino5169]

If you have been on thyroid meds for two months, I would have the labs now. There's another thread I've been on today you may like to look over, if you haven't already.
Switching From Synthroid to Naturethroid
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11203-Switching-From-Synthroid-to-Naturethroid

Thanks Vince ill check that out later.

 

[ratbag]

Go check the site out for details on that.

https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/

 

[johndoesmith]

Ok I agree that nothing wrong with it, but ill stand by its not placebo effect.
I dont see how placebo effect can make you work and have energy like you never had in 15 years. I've had chronic fatigue, and I dont think a placebo is going to make physiological differences like that. Maybe with some things it make make you FEEL better in your mind, but this is physical.
On top of that, i've taken many things without the so called placebo effect, so when something really does work, I know it.

Not being argumentative, just saying.

If you feel better once you stop taking your iron with your thyroid, then I'm wrong, and I'd rather be wrong in this case.

Did you stop feeling better once you started taking the iron?

 

[rhino5169]

If you feel better once you stop taking your iron with your thyroid, then I'm wrong, and I'd rather be wrong in this case.

Did you stop feeling better once you started taking the iron?

Yes, that's exactly what happened and why I posted. It wasnt immediate but I started taking the iron supp 1 week ago and then gradually over the course of this week i've been getting more tired every day. I dont know if it's supposed to happen that quick but as I think about it, it probably is for 2 reasons:
1. When starting the thyroid med the doc said I would start to notice a gradual effect after 2-3 days, and I did. Within a week or 2 it was phenomenal, as I stated in first post. So if it started that quickly then it can probably end that quickly
and
2. If as ratbag said the dose may not be enough so if it was negated by the iron would wear off quickly also.

Every day is getting worse and right now we have company over and I came inside to lay down because im freaking exhausted, just like I was before starting the thyroid med, and it's only 5pm.

It makes absolute perfect sense that the iron supp interfered.

I still am going to get a script to have the labwork though and should have the results before my next consult next week.

Thanks to all you guys that replied, you have no idea how much this has helped.
I DO NOT want to slip back to where I was before. This is definitely a lesson in how quick things turn with the thyroid.

Thanks again.