Is it possible to be on a diet to lose belly fat and increase exersize to build muscle?

[FeelingLost]

I started back in January at 208#

I just don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have been trying to lose belly fat and increase my overall core strength for the last 10 months.
I cleaned up my diet a lot and got off the couch. No more fast food (pizza, burgers, tacos, etc) no processed foods like chips, white bread, etc. Raised protein intake(steak/chicken breast) from ~35 grams a day to 170-200 grams per day. I eat 5-7 cups of salad everyday with 1 oz of salmon.

Started out with a 1900 cal goal and over 5 months I lost 16# and could lose no more.
Moved to a 1650 cal limit and increase time in the Gym to 2 hours 4 days a week. I ride a mtn bike the other 3 days 14-20 easy miles.
@ this caloric lvl I do experience Hypoglycemia episodes often and have to stop and do a hammer gel or something similar.

With the increased gym time I have improved my core strength but also gained 2 # to 192 and have been stuck here for the last 2 months.
I can explain some of the weight body fat is lighter than muscle. But the belly fat persists.

This slow to no gains has really hit my overall mood and I have to really force myself to go exersize. It probably hasn't help that I don't think my current TRT protocol is not cutting it. 2 months ago my T dose was doubled but I felt no improvement in any of the areas T is suppost to help.

I ordered bloods a month early(60 days instead of 90) to see if something can be done there.

So have you guys ever tried to do both lose weight from dieting and build muscle? Did you have any luck?

thanks

 

[SoCal Guy]

The answer is in your question.

Moved to a 1650 cal limit [...]
@ this caloric lvl I do experience Hypoglycemia episodes often and have to stop and do a hammer gel or something similar.

Each hammer gel is 21 grams of carbs, basically all sugar. (Though they use a lot of sugar analogs so they can make a label claim of 2 grams of sugar, their main ingredients are maltodextrin, apple juice concentrate, grape juice, rice dextrin, dextrose -- these are all things that you put in a product when you want to sell sugar without claiming sugar.)

You need to eat more meat, and your salads are not doing anything for you.

Basically, get anything insulinogenic (ie, carbs -- and especially boluses of maltodextrin!!) out of your diet. You need to get your insulin down, but you are starving yourself by not eating enough real food but pumping in sugar gel whenever you get hungry.

Check out the 'Zeroing in on Health' (animal foods only) group on ********.

Here's a typical result:


Good luck!

 

[Saul]

I think you are doing great. I have heard that long term (been there a decade or more) belly fat is all but impossible to lose. Hence Lipo and cool sculpting. I drop the most by working out fasted and not having the hammer type stuff. Maybe you are getting more calories than you think. The protein alone is 720 calories and there is always some fat calories alonge with it so probably closer to 1000. Some of it is just genetics. Also, maybe you are converting fat to muscle, so your weight is not dropping - that is what my wife said to me - she's sooo nice. Maybe track body fat. You are leading a healthy lifestyle and feeling better and that is what counts.

 

[Matt Leiser]

I started back in January at 208#

I just don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have been trying to lose belly fat and increase my overall core strength for the last 10 months.
I cleaned up my diet a lot and got off the couch. No more fast food (pizza, burgers, tacos, etc) no processed foods like chips, white bread, etc. Raised protein intake(steak/chicken breast) from ~35 grams a day to 170-200 grams per day. I eat 5-7 cups of salad everyday with 1 oz of salmon.

Started out with a 1900 cal goal and over 5 months I lost 16# and could lose no more.
Moved to a 1650 cal limit and increase time in the Gym to 2 hours 4 days a week. I ride a mtn bike the other 3 days 14-20 easy miles.
@ this caloric lvl I do experience Hypoglycemia episodes often and have to stop and do a hammer gel or something similar.

With the increased gym time I have improved my core strength but also gained 2 # to 192 and have been stuck here for the last 2 months.
I can explain some of the weight body fat is lighter than muscle. But the belly fat persists.

This slow to no gains has really hit my overall mood and I have to really force myself to go exersize. It probably hasn't help that I don't think my current TRT protocol is not cutting it. 2 months ago my T dose was doubled but I felt no improvement in any of the areas T is suppost to help.

I ordered bloods a month early(60 days instead of 90) to see if something can be done there.

So have you guys ever tried to do both lose weight from dieting and build muscle? Did you have any luck?

thanks

I think that you are doing fantastic and the fact you are reaching out for suggestions says something to your resolve. I have had success dieting but my belly fat is also still hanging (literally) around so I can definitely sympathize with what you are feeling.

i see you have dropped your caloric intake and have increased your time in the gym and on the road biking and are having hypoglycemic events. I am wondering with the increase demands with more energy output and the decrease in your energy input, your metabolism has adjusted and moved to a conservation state?

 

[FeelingLost]

SoCalGuy and Saul thank you both for your ideas.

SoCalGuy wow nice before and after picts man congrats.
If you've ever had a Hypoglycemia episodes sugar is what gets you out of the shaking and dizzyness.
In trying to lose this belly fat I am pretty much starving myself.

Everything I eat, except the salad, the primary ingredient is protein. Steak, chicken, salmon, nuts, peanutbutter, filetminon Beef jerky, egg whites.
Daily I eat steak filet minon (too old to chew the tough stuff) 4-6 oz if lunch or 6-8 oz if dinner or 8-12oz chicken breast.
The salad is required to crap without needing a spoon to assist my colon contractions, haha

All of the carbs I eat are low on the GI index <30 and their purpose is vitimins minerals and motility in the bathroom.
The only sugars are hidden I never add it to any meal.

I just ordered Jays book something on fire (?) and will give the Zeroing in on health FB page a look over.

@Saul thanks for the confidence lord I do want to have to consider lipo. Talk about your big asss needles, haha

 

[FeelingLost]

I think that you are doing fantastic and the fact you are reaching out for suggestions says something to your resolve. I have had success dieting but my belly fat is also still hanging (literally) around so I can definitely sympathize with what you are feeling.

i see you have dropped your caloric intake and have increased your time in the gym and on the road biking and are having hypoglycemic events. I am wondering with the increase demands with more energy output and the decrease in your energy input, your metabolism has adjusted and moved to a conservation state?

Hi Matt thank you for your post. What is this conservative state?
I do feel like because I have increased my time in the gym I am burning all my bodies sugar reserves, hence the shakes and dizziness.

Even though I am holding 1650 calories the meals I eat are large in size just very low in cals.
But even after eating I am always hungry my body is jone-ing for sugar which I will not give into. It really sucks to be thinking of food all day long.

Someone suggested in a PM I try a complex carb pre workout meal. Eat 40 minutes before going to the gym.
1/4 cup organic Rolled oats, 1/8 cup raw almonds, tbsp organic honey, 1/4 tsp cinnamon.

I just assembled all the ingredients today and will be trying tomorrow.

 

[Saul]

When I don't work out fasted - meaning focused more on building than losing weight - I have some oats (1/4 cup or less) soaked in water and then mix with with 20 grams of protein powder. Seems to give me energy for the workout and low calories and no sugar crash. I take it about 1/2 hour or maybe a bit more before going to gym. I saw the pictures you posted. You look good for 60 yo. You don't look like your are 193.

 

[madman]

I started back in January at 208#

I just don't seem to be getting anywhere. I have been trying to lose belly fat and increase my overall core strength for the last 10 months.
I cleaned up my diet a lot and got off the couch. No more fast food (pizza, burgers, tacos, etc) no processed foods like chips, white bread, etc. Raised protein intake(steak/chicken breast) from ~35 grams a day to 170-200 grams per day. I eat 5-7 cups of salad everyday with 1 oz of salmon.

Started out with a 1900 cal goal and over 5 months I lost 16# and could lose no more.
Moved to a 1650 cal limit and increase time in the Gym to 2 hours 4 days a week. I ride a mtn bike the other 3 days 14-20 easy miles.
@ this caloric lvl I do experience Hypoglycemia episodes often and have to stop and do a hammer gel or something similar.

With the increased gym time I have improved my core strength but also gained 2 # to 192 and have been stuck here for the last 2 months.
I can explain some of the weight body fat is lighter than muscle. But the belly fat persists.

This slow to no gains has really hit my overall mood and I have to really force myself to go exersize. It probably hasn't help that I don't think my current TRT protocol is not cutting it. 2 months ago my T dose was doubled but I felt no improvement in any of the areas T is suppost to help.

I ordered bloods a month early(60 days instead of 90) to see if something can be done there.

So have you guys ever tried to do both lose weight from dieting and build muscle? Did you have any luck?

thanks

You are going to have a hell of a time trying to add muscle tissue on 1650 cal/day let alone training in the gym for 2hrs/4 days a week and mountain biking 14-20 miles/3 days a week. I had stated before that building muscle requires more calories 250-500cal/day above BMR (basal metabolic rate) than maintaining muscle. For every new pound of muscle tissue (actin/myosin) one adds to their frame the body will burn roughly an extra 50-100 cal/day at rest as adding muscle tissue will increase ones metabolic rate. Your body composition changes have come to a stand still as your body may now be in preservation mode and in order to start seeing gains in the gym you will have to increase your calories slightly a little at a time. As far as your macros if you are eating roughly 200 grams protein/day that is 800 cal and if the rest is coming from mostly fibrous carbs (vegetables) and you are hardly taking in any fat and following a low carb diet than a lot of your protein is being burned up as fuel as oppose to being used to repair/rebuild new muscle proteins. As far as training in the gym compound movements- deadlift/squats/bench press/bent over barbell rows/chins/dips/close-grip bench/military press will result in more gains overall as you are stimulating the break down of a greater number of muscle fibers- think back/legs is where one will pack on the most muscle as if you end up being that strictly bis/tris/shoulders/chest training only guy in the gym do not expect too much muscle growth. You also stated that "2 months ago my T dose was doubled but I felt no improvement in any of the areas T is supposed to help". Sure having ones testosterone levels in a healthy physiological range especially in the upper end of the range (high/normal) will aid in one building muscle/losing body fat but if and only if your diet is in check and you are consuming enough calories/protein to add muscle as diet is critical.

 

[madman]

Body fat is not lighter than muscle as 5lbs of muscle and 5lbs of fat weigh the same of course but muscle is more dense and takes up less space than adipose.

 

[Mountain Man]

Body fat is easy to lose, stomach fat is another story. Throw out the scale, or at least de-emphasize it. A monthly body fat test will give you a better read and keep you more sane. Having a six pack is difficult at any age, let alone in our 60s. Regardless of how hard we work or even at any age, stomach fat is going to be the last to go. I got down to 11%, lowest in 25 years and still can't quite get the abs I want. At one point in my 30s I was at 8% and had the six pack for about a year. I suggest keeping at it, but don't forget that it may be something to strive for that comes close, but doesn't quite get there.

Madman is is spot on with the suggestion that that is a lot of training. I find my workouts are way better now that over the past 30 years due to training with joint friendly resistance bands and having briefer, more intense workouts. I fear you may burn out mentally with all that hard work and the feeling that you are not getting the results you want. Workouts need to be sustainable over the long haul, and at our ages that should be at least 25 years.

i also think you are a harsh critic. Your posts indicate you've made incredible progress. Keep working but don't burn out. I, and you probably as well, find it hard not to compare to guys that post here that are young enough to be our kids or even grandkids, a setup for disappointment and burnout.

 

[TheDude]

Renaissance Periodization is who I would recommend if you want to lose fat and gain muscle/strength. They are doing some great things with athletes in the Strength and Conditioning world.

 

[FeelingLost]

You are going to have a hell of a time trying to add muscle tissue on 1650 cal/day let alone training in the gym for 2hrs/4 days a week and mountain biking 14-20 miles/3 days a week.

I had stated before that building muscles requires more calories (250-500cal/day above BMR (basal metabolic rate) than maintaining muscle. For every new pound of muscle tissue (actin/myosin) one adds to their frame the body will burn roughly an extra 50-100cal/day at rest as adding muscle tissue will increase ones metabolic rate.

Your body composition changes have come to a stand still as your body may now be in preservation mode and in order to start seeing gains in the gym you will have to increase your calories slightly a little at a time.
As far as your macros if you are eating roughly 200 grams protein/day that is 800 cal and if the rest is coming from mostly fibrous carbs (vegetables) and you are hardly taking in any fat and following a low carb diet than a lot of your protein is being burned up as fuel as oppose to being used to repair/rebuild new muscle proteins.

As far as training in the gym compound movements deadlift/squats/bench press/bent over barbell rows/chins/dips/close-grip bench/military press will result in more gains overall as you are stimulating the break down of a greater number of muscle fibers- think back/legs is where on will pack on the most muscle as if you end up being that strictly bis/tris/shoulders/chest training only guy in the gym do not expect too much muscle growth.

You also stated that "2 months ago my T dose was doubled but I felt no improvement in any of the areas T is supposed to help". Sure having ones testosterone levels in a healthy physiological range especially in the upper end of the range (high/normal) will aid in one building muscle/losing body fat but if and only if your diet is in check and you are consuming enough calories/protein to add muscle as diet is critical.

How does one determine his BMR (basal metabolic rate)?

I am about ready to throw out the cal counting and not worry about losing this belly fat from restricting calories and focus on what I eat to support the exersize and see where that takes me. When you think about it this is no different than a TRT protocol change.

A sample meal plans. Yes I know it is not perfectly clean. Anytime you see hammer products or peanut butter I am on a bike ride.

 

[FeelingLost]

Body fat is easy to lose, stomach fat is another story. Throw out the scale, or at least de-emphasize it. A monthly body fat test will give you a better read and keep you more sane. Having a six pack is difficult at any age, let alone in our 60s. Regardless of how hard we work or even at any age, stomach fat is going to be the last to go. I got down to 11%, lowest in 25 years and still can't quite get the abs I want. At one point in my 30s I was at 8% and had the six pack for about a year. I suggest keeping at it, but don't forget that it may be something to strive for that comes close, but doesn't quite get there.

Madman is is spot on with the suggestion that that is a lot of training. I find my workouts are way better now that over the past 30 years due to training with joint friendly resistance bands and having briefer, more intense workouts. I fear you may burn out mentally with all that hard work and the feeling that you are not getting the results you want. Workouts need to be sustainable over the long haul, and at our ages that should be at least 25 years.

i also think you are a harsh critic. Your posts indicate you've made incredible progress. Keep working but don't burn out. I, and you probably as well, find it hard not to compare to guys that post here that are young enough to be our kids or even grandkids, a setup for disappointment and burnout.

Hi MountainMan, boy you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for the advice.
Only recently have I tried to put some muscle on. Before I was more interested in just overall core strength.
Because that is what's needed for mtn biking. In the past my only reason to go to a gym.
I did not have arm days and leg days like body builders do. I worked everything every trip to the gym.

Recently to try a put a little muscle on I have split my workouts to abs/legs and all upper body(back chest arms) adding supersets to try and increase the muscle pump.
Supplement wise I have added Gene's NO stack to try and improve blood flow to all muscles.

To keep things new at the gym I have started using many of the cable machines.
I enjoy them but have to wear my bike gloves do to palm blisters from the rubber grips.

 

[FeelingLost]

Just to give you guys a taste of the type of mtn biking I do here a good example from a first person perspective camera. This video is an hour long you'll get an idea of the intensity in the first 3 minutes. Feel free to watch more it is a real adrenaline pump and you can probably figure out why a sturdy, top heavy, muscular physique is not optimum for this activity. Its all about center of gravity core strength ;-)

 

[rhino5169]

SoCalGuy and Madman explained it perfectly.
At first glance, your calories seem very low. I know its hard to digest it though. When I figure out mine it says my maintenance calories is somewhere around 3300, lol.

 

[Country23030]

Feeling Lost I think you are doing great!! 15-20 lbs. seems to be the easy to lose pounds by lifestyle changes they come much slower after that, especially at my age.

 

[FeelingLost]

Body fat is not lighter than muscle as 5lbs of muscle and 5lbs of fat weigh the same of course but muscle is more dense and takes up less space than adipose.

View attachment 4282

Yes it is by volume (density)
HaHa I can't believe you did the "Which is heavier? a ton of feather or a ton of bricks. joke"

 

[FeelingLost]

SoCalGuy and Madman explained it perfectly.
At first glance, your calories seem very low. I know its hard to digest it though. When I figure out mine it says my maintenance calories is somewhere around 3300, lol.

A little googling for BMR


I am definitely in a major learning curve trying to balance weight loss specifically belly fat and building muscle(bulking up) which I have never really done.

I came up with the 1650 using the myfitness cal counting website suggested if I wanted to lose 1# a week and it spit that number out at me. I wasn't losing any additional weight at 1900 so I thought what the hell. At the same time I increased my gym time hoping that might help as well.

I'm not ready to do keto yet. Here's my post on that.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...GOOD-OR-BAD)-just-when-I-was-almost-convinced

I have come to the conclusion and answered my original post question. NO YOU CAN'T.

I need to drop the limited cal diet.
Forget about the belly fat for now and just focus on the muscle improvement.
Hoping the belly fat will take care of itself.

I need to redesign my diet that is forsure but I am still not ready to do keto.

 

[SoCal Guy]

I have come to the conclusion and answered my original post question. NO YOU CAN'T.

I need to drop the limited cal diet.
Forget about the belly fat for now and just focus on the muscle improvement.
Hoping the belly fat will take care of itself.

I need to redesign my diet that is forsure but I am still not ready to do keto.

it will definitely be hard to lose belly fat and gain muscle at the same time. It's possible, but not easy. And I think you're wise to focus on making sure you're eating enough protein.

But you really won't be losing belly fat as long as you're eating 156 grams of carbs a day. (And that's before adding oatmeal with honey.) And you might not gain as much muscle as you could without eating more meat than you have been.

I'm a big fan of Ted Naiman's. His chart makes it easy to understand where fat loss happens and where fat gain happens:




Basically, with the chart is showing is that you lose fat when you keep protein high and hold down energy sources. You can get energy from starches and sugars, or you can get energy from fat. As you move clockwise on the chart, you increase carbs or increase fat content in your diet without increasing protein proportionately. Weight loss slows, then stops.

So if you keep to the left side of the chart, keeping protein high, and fat and carbs low, you start to approach the "PSMF" side. (Protein-sparing modified fast -- quite extreme, and basically the fastest way you can lose weight while minimizing muscle loss.)

(On a PSMF, where does the energy/calories you need come from? From your stored fat -- but only if your insulin level is low enough to allow your fat cells to release fat. Otherwise you just crash and can't really function.)

Why do you 'crash' and have zero energy without carbs, when you still have plenty of fat around your waist? That's because while your body CAN run on fat, if it's been running on sugar for years, it is very inefficient at it, because (1) your levels of insulin are high, and insulin is the fat storage hormone. It prevents fat cells from releasing their fat. And (2) it takes time to rebuild your population of mitochondria, which is where you burn your fat. If you run on sugar for years, they gradually die off. They will start to multiply again when you stop eating carbs all the time, but it doesn't happen immediately. (That's why switching to low carb entails a period of bad feeling and low energy -- you simply won't have the mitochondria you need to run well on fat for a couple of weeks at least.)

Another Naiman graphic showing how eating carbs spikes glucose and keeps insulin high, growing fat cells and keeping them from venting fat, even when you're hungry:

 

[Vince]

When I get time, hopefully Thanksgiving weekend. I'll dig up old embarrassing pictures of my big belly. When new girlfriends see my old pictures, they can't believe how fat I was. At least the old pictures are good for a laugh.