How low is too low for e2?

[lifterbrah]

Or is it all about the ratio?

Got my labs (labcorp, requested by Defy) after having almost every symptom in the book for many years now. Concerned that my e2 is causing the symptoms?
Not on anything. 23y/o, M. Diet, supplementation, sleep and training on point. ~12.5%BF
Fasted in AM:

Total T: 421 ng/dL (264-916)
Free T: 13.6 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)
TSH: 2.25 uIU/mL (0.45-4)
LH: 4.2 mIU/mL(1.7-8.6)
Estradiol, Sensitive: 13.5 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)
SHBG: 38.8 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)

These are within the reference but the estradiol seems towards the low end...From what I've read most people seem happiest around 20-30. Test is also bottom 5% for my age I think. Also not sure what to make of this pg/mL reference range for Free T.

 

[madman]

Or is it all about the ratio?

Got my labs (labcorp, requested by Defy) after having almost every symptom in the book for many years now. Concerned that my e2 is causing the symptoms?
Not on anything. 23y/o, M. Diet, supplementation, sleep and training on point. ~12.5%BF
Fasted in AM:

Total T: 421 ng/dL (264-916)
Free T: 13.6 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)
TSH: 2.25 uIU/mL (0.45-4)
LH: 4.2 mIU/mL(1.7-8.6)
Estradiol, Sensitive: 13.5 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)
SHBG: 38.8 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)

These are within the reference but the estradiol seems towards the low end...From what I've read most people seem happiest around 20-30. Test is also bottom 5% for my age I think. Also not sure what to make of this pg/mL reference range for Free T.

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Your TT 421 ng/dL is sub-par let alone FT would be lowish and as you can see your e2 is on the lower end.

Mind your FT was tested using an inaccurate assay (direct immunoassay) and the only way to know where it truly sits would be to have it tested using the most accurate assays such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration.

Regardless with a sub-par TT 421 ng/dL and SHBG 38.8 nmol/L your FT would be on the lower end.

Seeing as you are only 23 years old I would look into trying Natesto, hCG monotherapy, or enclomiphene before jumping on transdermals or injections.

Shutting down your hpta let alone at 23 years old is not something to take lightly!

 

[madman]

Going to give you a heads up on what is involved when using exogenous T!



*This should be hammered into every patient's head before starting trt or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency).

Keep in mind many fail to realize that when starting trt or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) that hormones will be in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks when using TC/TE) and it is common for many during this transition to experience what we call the honeymoon period where there may be a strong increase in libido/erections and overall euphoric feeling due to increasing T levels/dopamine.

Unfortunately, this is temporary and short-lived for most as the body will eventually adjust.

It is also very common for many men to experience ups/downs in energy/mood/libido/erections/recovery during the transition as the body is trying to adjust which can be very misleading.

Even then do understand that once blood levels have stabilized (4-6 weeks) it will take another 2-3 months for the body to fully adapt to those new levels and this is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

When looking at the big picture the first 4-6 weeks is very misleading for most!

 

[Match]

Relação T / E, segundo dito no site, deve ser entre 14-20.
A sua está bem alta em razão do baixo E.
Assim, nem é possivel usar IA pra aumentar a TLivre e reduzir SBBG

 

[DragonBits]

Or is it all about the ratio?

Got my labs (labcorp, requested by Defy) after having almost every symptom in the book for many years now. Concerned that my e2 is causing the symptoms?
Not on anything. 23y/o, M. Diet, supplementation, sleep and training on point. ~12.5%BF
Fasted in AM:

Total T: 421 ng/dL (264-916)
Free T: 13.6 pg/mL (9.3-26.5)
TSH: 2.25 uIU/mL (0.45-4)
LH: 4.2 mIU/mL(1.7-8.6)
Estradiol, Sensitive: 13.5 pg/mL (8.0-35.0)
SHBG: 38.8 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)

These are within the reference but the estradiol seems towards the low end...From what I've read most people seem happiest around 20-30. Test is also bottom 5% for my age I think. Also not sure what to make of this pg/mL reference range for Free T.

IMO it's impossible to say how lower estradiol makes you feel when you have levels of T above 500.

Because men rarely, if ever, take estrogen cream to raise their estradiol levels when there total T is less than ~500. Men typically go on some sort of TRT, which also raises your E2.

So it becomes impossible to say which hormone is having the positive effects, the higher T or the higher E2.

You could experiment with an estrogen cream to raise your E2 levels while leaving your total T the same. Though higher E2 could lower T production. 0

Before being on TRT, my E2 would often be 5 pg/ml or lower. Even on TRT, my E2 has been 8.9 with the total T of 650. Most of the time my E2 is 15-35, I have to do some odd things to get my E2 to the top of the range. (7.6-42.6 pg/ml).

It appears to me that higher than 35 pg/ml starts to cause some water weight gain, but since this doesn't happen often I am not 100% sure of that. Low E2 I can't really say had a noticeable effect since IMO my at the time low T of 340 was more significant cause of low energy, fat gain, etc.

I also speculate that for those of us with naturally lower E2, we are more sensitive to E2 levels, like make we have more E2 receptors.

 

[Vince]

Your e2 is definitely not too low. I would be more concerned about your low testosterone level.

 

[DragonBits]

I agree with Vince, I would look at raising your total T.

Here is another data point to consider. Nearly all men who take clomid will raise both their
total T and their E2, but E2 goes up much more than total T goes up.

The thing is, most men don't report feeling much better taking clomid, many feel worse even though both their Total T and E2 went up.

 

[lifterbrah]

Thanks for the responses. After finding out my e2 was on the lower end I found alot of my symptoms are similar to what others report from low e2, hence my initial concern. But I agree, the problem to tackle is definitely the low test and e2 will correct course as a result.

I have my consult with Defy on Monday. I'm sure they will suggest clomid as I'm young, which I'm not adverse to, as TRT is a lifetime commitment after all. I'll post my results.

 

[JA Battle]

Thanks for the responses. After finding out my e2 was on the lower end I found alot of my symptoms are similar to what others report from low e2, hence my initial concern. But I agree, the problem to tackle is definitely the low test and e2 will correct course as a result.

I have my consult with Defy on Monday. I'm sure they will suggest clomid as I'm young, which I'm not adverse to, as TRT is a lifetime commitment after all. I'll post my results.

There is a study that I do not have time to link at the moment but has been passed around in several threads on this forum.

The study indicated that at least for libido and erectile quality, giving hypogonadal men e2 improved their sexual function.