higher thyroid levels associated with insulin resistence

[Joey786]

So Ive done some research on "optimal thyroid levels" for some time now. I am a patient myself and I haven't had many benefits from thyroid medications. The only difference i notice is Im warmer and I sweat easier. This isnt about my symptoms yada yada... This is about what really is optimal thyroid levels? When trying to find out what optimal levels are its easy to find the "ft3 must be in the upper 1/4 of the range to feel well blah blah blah". Digging further and actually looking at the research I have found that there are many negative associations with having higher thyroid levels within the normal range.

1) From european journal of endocrinology
Conclusion
: We show that a less favorable body composition (with higher fat and lower muscle mass

and accompanying higher leptin concentrations) and IR are associated with higher thyroid hormone

levels in healthy young men with well characterized euthyroidism
http://www.eje-online.org/content/167/5/719.full.pdf

2) This study found positive correlations between %BF, fat mass, insulin resistance, LDL
http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0049/ea0049EP684.htm

3) Study found increase in tsh and free t3 correlated with bmi and waist circumference.

4) thyroid levels in jordanian athletes
http://www.academicjournals.org/journal/SRE/article-full-text-pdf/71DA4DA31779
Look at the levels in these athletes

5) Thyroid hormones are positively associated with insulin resistance early in the development of type 2
https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_early_in_the_development_of_type_2_diabetes


How can having ft3 in the upper 1/4 of the range be recommended by any doctor today? There are many studies showing higher ft3 is not "optimal". I would like feed back on this information. This cannot be overlooked...

 

[ratbag]

It's not so simple. Everyone is different. I feel way better if my FT3 is at the very top of range, while others don't tolerate it well. Optimal is different for everyone. You have to find your sweet spot and that takes time.

 

[Joey786]

Can you tell me if you're on thyroid meds and if so which ones? How long have you been on thyroid meds? Are you on trt? Do you get sleepy after large meals? Do your muscles feel flat? How are your pumps in the gym?

 

[ratbag]

Yes I'm on all hormones. I take 25mcg Cytomel and 200mcg Synthroid, yes to TRT. On this for over 10 years. My muscles feel fine. I exercise but I don't lift weights. It took many years to get everything dialed in where I felt like I was 20 years old again. I didn't feel normal until HCG, DHEA and progesterone were added to my regimen. But my labs showed I needed those except HCG... HCG improved my brain function immensely. These later additions eliminated all my anxiety and nervousness and made me feel calm and relaxed with improved cognitive function. As I mentioned earlier it doesn't work for everyone. You have to find out thru labs etc what your body needs and take those steps. This is why Defy is so helpful, their MD's know this and try to get you balanced sooner than most. There is much more than just TRT in making someone feel good again.

 

[Joey786]

Thanks for your responses. Do you take all your thyroid in the morning or do you split it up?

 

[ratbag]

I take it all in the morning because I need to take iron at bedtime and you can't mix the two. Before I had to take iron I would take synthyroid in the morning and cytomel at bedtime.

 

[Joey786]

I had been taking 10 mcg t3 and 50 mcg t4. On this amount of medication I can't get a pump in the gym. I don't think it's a question of food intake because I've tried to increase my calories. I was getting in 450 grams of carbs per day but still no pump or fullness in the muscle. I was also sweating much more and I felt extremely sleepy after meals. What's your diet like ratbag?

 

[ratbag]

I'm not a weight lifter so with that in mind. I eat whole foods only, lots of veggies and zero simple carbs.. no sugar anywhere, unless I have a beer.

 

[Joey786]

I'm glad you feel well on your program. I believe you aren't insulin resistant because of your diet. If you ate a normal diet (most calories from carbs) you wouldn't feel well because of insulin resistance caused by high thyroid hormones. My issue is that people are shooting for higher numbers when there is plenty of research showing that higher numbers might not be healthy. That said I know when someone is not feeling well and they find something that works they want to stick with that protocol. What are your thoughts on higher metabolism and higher caloric intake speeding aging?

 

[ratbag]

I am type 2 diabetic and have some insulin resistance as well and I did before I started HRT and I still do. You do not feel any symptoms from insulin resistance or from diabetes.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

So Ive done some research on "optimal thyroid levels" for some time now. I am a patient myself and I haven't had many benefits from thyroid medications. The only difference i notice is Im warmer and I sweat easier. This isnt about my symptoms yada yada... This is about what really is optimal thyroid levels? When trying to find out what optimal levels are its easy to find the "ft3 must be in the upper 1/4 of the range to feel well blah blah blah". Digging further and actually looking at the research I have found that there are many negative associations with having higher thyroid levels within the normal range.

1) From european journal of endocrinology
Conclusion
: We show that a less favorable body composition (with higher fat and lower muscle mass

and accompanying higher leptin concentrations) and IR are associated with higher thyroid hormone

levels in healthy young men with well characterized euthyroidism
http://www.eje-online.org/content/167/5/719.full.pdf

2) This study found positive correlations between %BF, fat mass, insulin resistance, LDL
http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0049/ea0049EP684.htm

3) Study found increase in tsh and free t3 correlated with bmi and waist circumference.

4) thyroid levels in jordanian athletes
http://www.academicjournals.org/journal/SRE/article-full-text-pdf/71DA4DA31779
Look at the levels in these athletes

5) Thyroid hormones are positively associated with insulin resistance early in the development of type 2
https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_early_in_the_development_of_type_2_diabetes


How can having ft3 in the upper 1/4 of the range be recommended by any doctor today? There are many studies showing higher ft3 is not "optimal". I would like feed back on this information. This cannot be overlooked...

An important, and very nuanced, point here is: higher free T3 levels don't tell the whole story (as with all hormones a trained eye is needed to look at the OVERALL picture to determine what clues the hormonal symphony is telling us). For example, high-normal free T3 on a serum test can tell two polar opposite stories depending on if clinical data and suspicion points to pooling.

 

[Joey786]

I am type 2 diabetic and have some insulin resistance as well and I did before I started HRT and I still do. You do not feel any symptoms from insulin resistance or from diabetes.

I'm sorry to hear that. I just wish drs would tell their patients of these possible effects of thyroid medication. Before thyroid medication I was not insulin resistant. I'm don't think I'm insulin resistant now but now after I eat I get very sleepy sometimes. Sometimes I pass out after eating. I believe this is because higher t3 levels potentiate the insulin response to food. Too much insulin, blood sugar drops too low and you feel sleepy. Higher t3 levels do have benefits on mental wellness though. It's a crappy position to be in.