HCG or . . .No HCG?

[BigO42]

I am planning to begin a full TRT regimen after 4 years of clomid. Based on my labs and history, defy is recommending T cyp mwf and 250iu hcg t/th/s. I am lower end SHBG when off clomid and usually lower end E2. I'm 37 and have 4 kids and my wife and I have agreed 4 is enough so I'm not super concerned about fertility.

Looking for thoughts on whether or not to include HCG. I've heard some think it improves things, others don't.

 

[Jucaro]

I am planning to begin a full TRT regimen after 4 years of clomid. Based on my labs and history, defy is recommending T cyp mwf and 250iu hcg t/th/s. I am lower end SHBG when off clomid and usually lower end E2. I'm 37 and have 4 kids and my wife and I have agreed 4 is enough so I'm not super concerned about fertility.

Looking for thoughts on whether or not to include HCG. I've heard some think it improves things, others don't.

You won't like to see your testicles shrinking. For me hcg 250 IU twice weekly was enough to prevent testicular atrophy and keep some (sub-fertile) level of sperm production, so no zero sperm count. It is good to know your testicles still keep working although at low speed.


I am father of two so I didn't worry about fertility while on TRT, but now being 54 y/o I want to father again... life is like that... you never know.


By the way, How have you been doing all that time on clomid?. Before TRT I was few months on clomid, felt good physically and mentally, although no better libido even with good T levels. After TRT I have tried many times to go on clomid monotherapy but I haven't been able to deal with it.

 

[BigO42]

You won't like to see your testicles shrinking. For me hcg 250 IU twice weekly was enough to prevent testicular atrophy and keep some (sub-fertile) level of sperm production, so no zero sperm count. It is good to know your testicles still keep working although at low speed.


I am father of two so I didn't worry about fertility while on TRT, but now being 54 y/o I want to father again... life is like that... you never know.


By the way, How have you been doing all that time on clomid?. Before TRT I was few months on clomid, felt good physically and mentally, although no better libido even with good T levels. After TRT I have tried many times to go on clomid monotherapy but I haven't been able to deal with it.

I did awesome on clomid for 4 years. I took 12.5mg once every 3 days. I also mixed a very small dose of anastrozole .08mg every 4th or 5th day. At 4 years I crashed. In hindsight I think it was more to do either anastrole driving down e2, I think I probabaly didn't need it. That frequency took my total T levels from 400 to 7-800 consistently with similar increase in free T. But the crash was scary enough (terrible anxiety) I'm reluctant to use it again.

 

[bruin]

HCG..........definitely

 

[DaveK22]

At 37 yrs old I see no reason to not to a least try HCG. I have been on/off TRT 4x over past 10 years for many different reasons but I was always able to do a restart very easily...which I'm sure being on hcg helped.

If cost is an issue, you may want to consdider the Indian generics. I recently bought 6 boxes of 5,000 iu HCG for $65 shipped using a small disc code. That'll be about 7 months of treatment for me for about .30 cents a day. Cheap price to keep "the boys" around for a while lol

 

[t_spacemonkey]

there is no yes/no answer. it depends. when i started TRT 1 year ago with HCG i was doing fine. then i stopped. after restart it gave me massive mental symptoms like anxiety. i suspect too high e2 since taking an AI (which i normally don't) helped.
i think if you do HCG your weekly dose of T has to be adjusted for (downwards). I kept raising my dose since my blood levels were low and I also felt better on the higher end T dose.
i suggest you try HCG and see how it works. it definitely bumps libido and orgasm quality for me. but the anxiety is not worth it. i am currently trying to restart it at a super low dose and see how it works.

 

[BigO42]

HCG..........definitely

Whys that?

there is no yes/no answer. it depends. when i started TRT 1 year ago with HCG i was doing fine. then i stopped. after restart it gave me massive mental symptoms like anxiety. i suspect too high e2 since taking an AI (which i normally don't) helped.
i think if you do HCG your weekly dose of T has to be adjusted for (downwards). I kept raising my dose since my blood levels were low and I also felt better on the higher end T dose.
i suggest you try HCG and see how it works. it definitely bumps libido and orgasm quality for me. but the anxiety is not worth it. i am currently trying to restart it at a super low dose and see how it works.

Yes, anxiety is my concern. . . I tend to have anxiety issues and I really don't want to exacerbate that.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

yeah....some guys do get anxiety. it was awful. i woke up at 3am with heart racing and panic. never had this type before. but again, it could be that my T dose (200mg/week) is too high to HCG. also i mentioned pregnancy so the clinic recommended 3x500iu HCG. i think this combination was too much. at 120mg/T + 3x250IU HCG you probably will be ok

 

[BigO42]

yeah....some guys do get anxiety. it was awful. i woke up at 3am with heart racing and panic. never had this type before. but again, it could be that my T dose (200mg/week) is too high to HCG. also i mentioned pregnancy so the clinic recommended 3x500iu HCG. i think this combination was too much. at 120mg/T + 3x250IU HCG you probably will be ok

I've had the 3 am wake ups in a panic for no reason regardless. I've believe my anxiety flare ups are usually due to low E2 (or a combination of low e2 and low T) . . . But I certainly don't want to risk exacerbating the anxiety.

 

[HarryCat2]

You're paying Defy for their expertise, do what they say and then stay off the forums unless you have issues down the road.

 

[Fortunate]

there is no yes/no answer. it depends. when i started TRT 1 year ago with HCG i was doing fine. then i stopped. after restart it gave me massive mental symptoms like anxiety. i suspect too high e2 since taking an AI (which i normally don't) helped.
i think if you do HCG your weekly dose of T has to be adjusted for (downwards). I kept raising my dose since my blood levels were low and I also felt better on the higher end T dose.
i suggest you try HCG and see how it works. it definitely bumps libido and orgasm quality for me. but the anxiety is not worth it. i am currently trying to restart it at a super low dose and see how it works.

I had the same experience: did fine on it for a long time. Then, stopped, but every time I try to restart it, I feel anxious and edgy.

 

[jobshopper]

I had the same experience: did fine on it for a long time. Then, stopped, but every time I try to restart it, I feel anxious and edgy.

Do you adjust your T protocol downward to compensate for the HCG when you restart?

 

[Fortunate]

Do you adjust your T protocol downward to compensate for the HCG when you restart?

No, but I’ve done it on Natesto, which is hard to adjust.

 

[jobshopper]

No, but I’ve done it on Natesto, which is hard to adjust.

Have you done labs before restarting and then again after restarting to see where your T levels are at before and after?

 

[Fortunate]

Have you done labs before restarting and then again after restarting to see where your T levels are at before and after?

No. This was something I considered doing, but couldn’t tolerate hCG long enough to make it worthwhile. I think it’s a great idea. I recommend that anyone using hCG do exactly this.

 

[jobshopper]

No. This was something I considered doing, but couldn’t tolerate hCG long enough to make it worthwhile. I think it’s a great idea. I recommend that anyone using hCG do exactly this.

It would have been nice to see your before and after labs for future reference.

 

[Fortunate]

It would have been nice to see your before and after labs for future reference.

I totally agree. The strange thing is that I was on it for a really long time and did very well. I then stopped it for various reasons, and every time I tried to restart it, I had anxiety and insomnia issues like many describe. Never had it before. Only experienced it after being off of it for a while.

I suspect maybe I acclimated to it and therefore it wasn’t an issue once I was on it long term.

 

[jobshopper]

I totally agree. The strange thing is that I was on it for a really long time and did very well. I then stopped it for various reasons, and every time I tried to restart it, I had anxiety and insomnia issues like many describe. Never had it before. Only experienced it after being off of it for a while.

I suspect maybe I acclimated to it and therefore it wasn’t an issue once I was on it long term.

Maybe you could start slow and work your way up so that your body can adjust. But, if your T and E2 are increasing along with the HCG then I would think that has to be compensated for somehow, eh?

 

[Simbarn]

I had the same experience: did fine on it for a long time. Then, stopped, but every time I try to restart it, I feel anxious and edgy.

It would be interesting to see if Ovidrel caused these same issues for you. There may be something in the urinary derived hCG that causes this. The issues I had with nipple tenderness and swelling from urinary derived hCG are not present with the recombinant version.

 

[JetSpyder]

there is no yes/no answer. it depends. when i started TRT 1 year ago with HCG i was doing fine. then i stopped. after restart it gave me massive mental symptoms like anxiety. i suspect too high e2 since taking an AI (which i normally don't) helped.
i think if you do HCG your weekly dose of T has to be adjusted for (downwards). I kept raising my dose since my blood levels were low and I also felt better on the higher end T dose.
i suggest you try HCG and see how it works. it definitely bumps libido and orgasm quality for me. but the anxiety is not worth it. i am currently trying to restart it at a super low dose and see how it works.

Let me know how your low dose works out for you. I am dealing with the same issue. Everytime I start up again I get massive anxiety. I recently switched to 28 mg test EOD with no HCG but my penis sensitivity is mostly gone. I would love to find a low dose that would work but I'm scared to start up again.