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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
First post. Can’t get E2 under control, starting to worry
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<blockquote data-quote="FunkOdyssey" data-source="post: 277079" data-attributes="member: 44064"><p>Well, we haven't spoken about estrogen receptors here yet. Surely those are not saturated when your testosterone is at 700 ng/dL, leaving plenty of opportunity for higher dosing to stimulate more estrogen signaling.</p><p></p><p>Maybe this is a good time to talk about the relevance and effects of serum E2. The party line from the anti-AI crowd is that E2 is a paracrine hormone and serum E2 is a meaningless artifact of spillover from tissues, not worth measuring or being concerned with. It is the same logic that is being applied above to DHT.</p><p></p><p>Interestingly, some men have had superior results with TRT when they take estradiol valerate alongside it, either in the form of oral tablets or injections. When they do this, estradiol is introduced systemically, acts as an endocrine hormone, and improves their experience of TRT with better mood, libido, relief of joint pain, etc. In fact if I recall correctly, [USER=42893]@RobRoy[/USER] has himself experimented with estradiol valerate tablets.</p><p></p><p>Should we be surprised that estradiol can act as an endocrine hormone in humans? Of course not. That is how it operates in women. We can even perform gender transitions in men by administering anti-androgen drugs together with estradiol valerate at 2-4 mg daily.</p><p></p><p>Even in the naturally functioning male, circulating estradiol plays a key role as the primary regulator of gonadotropin secretion. Our HPTA system is set up to measure estradiol in the blood and then regulate output of gonadotropins to maintain a target level of estradiol in serum. Think about that when you hear people try to minimize the importance of serum estradiol. It is almost as if testosterone is just an incidental byproduct of the real mission of the HPT axis, which is to hit that level of serum estradiol it is looking for. Hence in obesity, the excessive aromatization in fat tissue allows you to hit the HPTA's estradiol target with much lower levels of testosterone, leaving you hypogonadal.</p><p></p><p>Between the easily observed effects created by raising serum E2 with exogenous estradiol, and the prime importance our own brain and biology places on maintaining serum estradiol at a given level, why do we continue to buy into this idea that serum E2 is meaningless in men on TRT? Just because the source of the E2 is spillover from tissues, we are to assume it exerts no systemic effects? The E2 spilling over from tissues acts magically different than E2 introduced via a pill or an injection? The logic falls apart upon closer examination.</p><p></p><p>Just to be clear, I am not advocating for any form of aromatase inhibition or estrogen blocking. I just want to open minds to the possibility that high serum levels of estradiol may actually be affecting you when they occur. Maybe those effects are all positive. Maybe they aren't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FunkOdyssey, post: 277079, member: 44064"] Well, we haven't spoken about estrogen receptors here yet. Surely those are not saturated when your testosterone is at 700 ng/dL, leaving plenty of opportunity for higher dosing to stimulate more estrogen signaling. Maybe this is a good time to talk about the relevance and effects of serum E2. The party line from the anti-AI crowd is that E2 is a paracrine hormone and serum E2 is a meaningless artifact of spillover from tissues, not worth measuring or being concerned with. It is the same logic that is being applied above to DHT. Interestingly, some men have had superior results with TRT when they take estradiol valerate alongside it, either in the form of oral tablets or injections. When they do this, estradiol is introduced systemically, acts as an endocrine hormone, and improves their experience of TRT with better mood, libido, relief of joint pain, etc. In fact if I recall correctly, [USER=42893]@RobRoy[/USER] has himself experimented with estradiol valerate tablets. Should we be surprised that estradiol can act as an endocrine hormone in humans? Of course not. That is how it operates in women. We can even perform gender transitions in men by administering anti-androgen drugs together with estradiol valerate at 2-4 mg daily. Even in the naturally functioning male, circulating estradiol plays a key role as the primary regulator of gonadotropin secretion. Our HPTA system is set up to measure estradiol in the blood and then regulate output of gonadotropins to maintain a target level of estradiol in serum. Think about that when you hear people try to minimize the importance of serum estradiol. It is almost as if testosterone is just an incidental byproduct of the real mission of the HPT axis, which is to hit that level of serum estradiol it is looking for. Hence in obesity, the excessive aromatization in fat tissue allows you to hit the HPTA's estradiol target with much lower levels of testosterone, leaving you hypogonadal. Between the easily observed effects created by raising serum E2 with exogenous estradiol, and the prime importance our own brain and biology places on maintaining serum estradiol at a given level, why do we continue to buy into this idea that serum E2 is meaningless in men on TRT? Just because the source of the E2 is spillover from tissues, we are to assume it exerts no systemic effects? The E2 spilling over from tissues acts magically different than E2 introduced via a pill or an injection? The logic falls apart upon closer examination. Just to be clear, I am not advocating for any form of aromatase inhibition or estrogen blocking. I just want to open minds to the possibility that high serum levels of estradiol may actually be affecting you when they occur. Maybe those effects are all positive. Maybe they aren't. [/QUOTE]
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Testosterone Replacement, Low T, HCG, & Beyond
Testosterone Basics & Questions
First post. Can’t get E2 under control, starting to worry
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