First post. Can’t get E2 under control, starting to worry

[Stalerigatoni]

Hey guys.

34 years old been on TRT for 6 years.

Not entirely sure what to do here. About 3 months ago my e2 came back at 240 pmol/L. My protocol at that time was

60mg test
.5mg arimidex
500iu HCG

Twice per week for a total of 120 / 1 / 1000

I was pretty inconsistent with my dosing and after talking to the group realized my HCG was probably too high.

So I did 3 months at

60mg test
250iu HCG
.5mg arimidex

Twice per week for a total of 120 / 1 / 500iu

I dropped my HCG by half and was consistent with making sure my arimidex was taken every week at the same time as my test and HCG injection

Just got labs done this morning and my e2 came back at 275!!!?? Even higher than last time. I can’t figure it out I’ve always ran decently high on e2 but never this high

I don’t have high estrogen sides at all. I feel great. All the rest of my labs came back great including blood count and lipids

Not sure what else to do aside from taking another .5mg arimidex mid week?

Please help

 

[sammmy]

It seems your arimidex is fake. Where do you buy it from?

The best way to reduce e2 is to reduce the T dose and drop the HCG and then the arimidex may be unnecessary.

 

[Stalerigatoni]

It seems your arimidex is fake. Where do you buy it from?

The best way to reduce e2 is to reduce the T dose and drop the HCG and then the arimidex may be unnecessary.

All of these compounds are prescribed and picked up from pharmacy. My wife and I still want another kid so can’t drop HCG

 

[sammmy]

What is the normal range of your e2 test for males?

240 to 275 is a normal random fluctuation since you were taking the same amount of arimidex. This is not a significant increase.

 

[Seagal]

All of these compounds are prescribed and picked up from pharmacy. My wife and I still want another kid so can’t drop HCG

Maybe you gained fat mass, drunk more alcohol etc. Was your lifestyle as consistent as your protocol?
If you feel well, I wouldn't worry about the E2 number, which should be viewed in context with your T level.

 

[Systemlord]

I dropped my HCG by half and was consistent with making sure my arimidex was taken every week at the same time as my test and HCG injection

Just got labs done this morning and my e2 came back at 275!!!??

Arimidex cannot affect E2 produced inside the testicles, which is where hCG does it's job. Arimidex can only affect E2 produced via aromatase.

The only way to lower estrogen is reduce the hCG dosage.

You say you have no symptoms, so I don't understand why you're taking arimidex.

Serum E2 tells you nothing, because there's 50 times more estrogen in your tissue, which is where estrogen does it's thing.

Serum E2 is leftovers, as in it's not doing anything.

 

[Vince]

Hey guys.

34 years old been on TRT for 6 years.

Not entirely sure what to do here. About 3 months ago my e2 came back at 240 pmol/L. My protocol at that time was

60mg test
.5mg arimidex
500iu HCG

Twice per week for a total of 120 / 1 / 1000

I was pretty inconsistent with my dosing and after talking to the group realized my HCG was probably too high.

So I did 3 months at

60mg test
250iu HCG
.5mg arimidex

Twice per week for a total of 120 / 1 / 500iu

I dropped my HCG by half and was consistent with making sure my arimidex was taken every week at the same time as my test and HCG injection

Just got labs done this morning and my e2 came back at 275!!!?? Even higher than last time. I can’t figure it out I’ve always ran decently high on e2 but never this high

I don’t have high estrogen sides at all. I feel great. All the rest of my labs came back great including blood count and lipids

Not sure what else to do aside from taking another .5mg arimidex mid week?

Please help

Don't worry about your E2 levels as long as you're feeling good. Especially since you're not having any high estrogen sides.

 

[Stalerigatoni]

Maybe you gained fat mass, drunk more alcohol etc. Was your lifestyle as consistent as your protocol?
If you feel well, I wouldn't worry about the E2 number, which should be viewed in context with your T level.

Between labs I actually cut out drinking entirely and my diet was on point. My only vice is vaping

My T level didn’t come back very high. I’m at 624 (which has actually been one of my lowest readings) my SBGH is 27

 

[Stalerigatoni]

What is the normal range of your e2 test for males?

240 to 275 is a normal random fluctuation since you were taking the same amount of arimidex. This is not a significant increase.

I usually sit between 140-170 for most of my labs over the years. Normal range is 160 and under for us. My last 240 was considered high. And this time at 275 even higher

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I usually sit between 140-170 for most of my labs over the years. Normal range is 160 and under for us. My last 240 was considered high. And this time at 275 even higher

Your numbers are fine for a man on TRT, don't worry about it. If you hadn't seen that 275 number you'd be loving life. Pretend you didn't see it.

 

[Cataceous]

I usually sit between 140-170 for most of my labs over the years. Normal range is 160 and under for us. My last 240 was considered high. And this time at 275 even higher

I respectfully disagree with my colleagues. You're in uncharted territory with such high estradiol. Nobody can give you complete assurance that this is going to be benign in the long run, particularly when estradiol is also relatively high as a fraction of testosterone.

Here's one potential negative:

A paradoxical decline in semen parameters in men treated with clomiphene citrate​

...​

Elevated estradiol levels result in vacuolization and increased glycoprotein production impairing Sertoli cell function. It also disturbs communication with germ cells, increases collagen synthesis and fatty degeneration in the testicular connective tissue. All these actions collectively result in the induction of germ cell death (Leavy et al., 2017). Oestradiol also plays a critical role in round spermatid chromatin reorganization during spermiogenesis through its action on Estrogen Receptor Alpha (ERα) present on Sertoli cells (Cacciola et al., 2013). Overexposure to estrogens reduces the expression of ERα on Sertoli cells, impacting this critical action. Moreover, it has been recognized that supraphysiological concentrations of estrogen act as powerful apoptotic triggers that induce germ cell apoptosis (Correia et al., 2015).​

[R]​

This isn't to say that forcing estradiol lower with aromatase inhibitors is necessarily any better. There are plenty of unknowns here as well.

If you have access to a testosterone nasal gel, such as Natesto, then it's worth looking into as an alternative to traditional TRT. This form of treatment keeps your hormones in a more natural state, and preserves fertility. I suspect this short-acting testosterone would not give you nearly as much trouble with elevated estrogen.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

as said here, i would ignore this completely. and stop the fucking AI.
my e2 would run consistantly around 70ng/dl. considered high. felt great
now that i am 14lbs into my weight loss, it actually went down to 50ng/dl.

 

[sammmy]

Drop your T dose to 40mg twice weekly (80mg/week) and your estrogen will drop too. Some members here do 40mg/week so you will be fine.

 

[Stalerigatoni]

as said here, i would ignore this completely. and stop the fucking AI.
my e2 would run consistantly around 70ng/dl. considered high. felt great
now that i am 14lbs into my weight loss, it actually went down to 50ng/dl.

If I’m at 270nmol with AI will I not skyrocket without it and see symptoms? I’ve been on an AI consistently for almost 7 years now

 

[Stalerigatoni]

Drop your T dose to 40mg twice weekly (80mg/week) and your estrogen will drop too. Some members here do 40mg/week so you will be fine.

I’m very happy with where my T is now. 94 hours (4 days) after my second 60mg injection I’m at around 690 total T. Which is typically lower than where I feel my optimal sense of well being.

I’m wondering if smaller doses more frequently, or subQ injections would make a difference?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

If I’m at 270nmol with AI will I not skyrocket without it and see symptoms? I’ve been on an AI consistently for almost 7 years now

it might go up a bit. you're at 77ng/dl which is around where I was sitting for a long time. there is no guarantee that you will get any symptoms, you might feel even better
how is your body fat? while dropping T might help, for many like me doses below 150mg/week bring back all the symptoms of low T. your AI dose is huge, even for 2x week. I personally would leave the T for now, and lower AI slowly till 0 and observe symptoms. if you have no symptoms the lab ranges do NOT matter

 

[Stalerigatoni]

it might go up a bit. you're at 77ng/dl which is around where I was sitting for a long time. there is no guarantee that you will get any symptoms, you might feel even better
how is your body fat? while dropping T might help, for many like me doses below 150mg/week bring back all the symptoms of low T. your AI dose is huge, even for 2x week. I personally would leave the T for now, and lower AI slowly till 0 and observe symptoms. if you have no symptoms the lab ranges do NOT matter

Body fat is low. Not sure exact number but abs visible and veins visible in stomach and legs look like a road map lol. I’d say around 12% I’m 5’11 195lb. Lift 6 days a week and eat relatively healthy. I’m a carb hound.

 

[Systemlord]

I’m a carb hound.

I'm a fat whore, I'm on the carnivore diet, lol!

 

[Stalerigatoni]

I'm fat whore, I'm on the carnivore diet, lol!

Hahahaha

 

[aneuman]

I respectfully disagree with my colleagues. You're in uncharted territory with such high estradiol. Nobody can give you complete assurance that this is going to be benign in the long run, particularly when estradiol is also relatively high as a fraction of testosterone.

Here's one potential negative:

A paradoxical decline in semen parameters in men treated with clomiphene citrate​

...​

Elevated estradiol levels result in vacuolization and increased glycoprotein production impairing Sertoli cell function. It also disturbs communication with germ cells, increases collagen synthesis and fatty degeneration in the testicular connective tissue. All these actions collectively result in the induction of germ cell death (Leavy et al., 2017). Oestradiol also plays a critical role in round spermatid chromatin reorganization during spermiogenesis through its action on Estrogen Receptor Alpha (ERα) present on Sertoli cells (Cacciola et al., 2013). Overexposure to estrogens reduces the expression of ERα on Sertoli cells, impacting this critical action. Moreover, it has been recognized that supraphysiological concentrations of estrogen act as powerful apoptotic triggers that induce germ cell apoptosis (Correia et al., 2015).​

[R]​

This isn't to say that forcing estradiol lower with aromatase inhibitors is necessarily any better. There are plenty of unknowns here as well.

If you have access to a testosterone nasal gel, such as Natesto, then it's worth looking into as an alternative to traditional TRT. This form of treatment keeps your hormones in a more natural state, and preserves fertility. I suspect this short-acting testosterone would not give you nearly as much trouble with elevated estrogen.

Glad to see a voice of reason in the endless wars of estradiol levels