Finally hacked my sleep! Now I have a question?

[DragonBits]

My sleep was really getting bad, up every 90 min, virtually nothing worked.

In desperation, I stopped all supplements. So in a month, I was sleeping better. Not perfect, but at least I don't get up all the time.

Side effects: It appears I bleed more when cut or do an injection, I feel a little more tired during the day.

My question, these are the supplements I was taking daily and that I stopped taking. Which one is most likely to cause insomnia? I would like to start back taking these, and want to get suggestions on which one might have caused insomnia..

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1) AREDS 2 (I only take 1 tab, these amounts are for 2 tabs.
(Vitamin C - 500 mg 833% Vitamin E - 400 IU 1333% Zinc - 25 mg - Lower Zinc! 167% Copper - 1.2 mg - Lower Copper! 60% Lutein - 10 mg Zeaxanthin - 2 mg)

2) Boron (calcium borogluconate) 6 mg
3) Koncentrated K Vitamin K1 (Phylloquinone 5mg) Vitamins MK4 (Menaquinone 4, 25 mg) and MK7 (Menaquinone 7, 0.5 mg) Astaxanthin (2 mg)
4) Magtein magnesium l-threonate 1 tabs 11% DV
5) Vitamin B-12 1000 MCG, 16,666 %DV
6) 2x CO Q-10 100 mg NewRhythm Probiotics 20 Strains 50 billion CFUCacao powder 3-4 grams
7) Vitamin D3 10,000 IU every other day
8) Super Bio-Curcumin®NIH Curcumin
9) DHEA 25 mg
10) Pregnenolone 50 mg

 

[sammmy]

Boron and DHEA are sleep impairing for me.

 

[newuser]

Boron and DHEA are sleep impairing for me.

DHEA, Pregnenolone and MK4 in high doses effects my sleep quality the most.

 

[DragonBits]

Boron and DHEA are sleep impairing for me.

Thanks, I never would have considered boron as affecting sleep. Did you try boron on it's own or were you taking both dhea and boron?

 

[Weasel]

magnesium l-threonate does it to me. More of a not really sleeping, not really awake though. I dont sleep well but MLT made it even worse. counterintuitive i know.

 

[sammmy]

I've tried boron as borax and as boron gluconate separately from DHEA. They all gave endurance during the day but start to impair my sleep after a few doses. Everyone is different though.

You should start adding back supplements, if they are needed at all, one by one and test them for a few weeks to see which one is bad for your sleep.

 

[sammmy]

Actually I took boron complex (by NOW), not gluconate.

 

[RPellerin]

I can't take DHEA, causes agitation and depression.

 

[DragonBits]

I've tried boron as borax and as boron gluconate separately from DHEA. They all gave endurance during the day but start to impair my sleep after a few doses. Everyone is different though.

You should start adding back supplements, if they are needed at all, one by one and test them for a few weeks to see which one is bad for your sleep.

I absolutely agree that adding supplements back one by one, give them a month, then go to the next is the best idea.

But that would take 10 months, quite a long time, especially in this age of internet.

I was hoping to add in a group of supplements, basing those I would only add one at a time based on what posters here are reporting.

 

[Willyt]

How do you feel otherwise beyond the sleep issue? Why not ditch the supplements long-term? That is pretty much what I did other than multi and Vit D. Don't see huge difference other than a few side effects going away which is a good thing of course.

 

[sammmy]

To make the testing process quicker, I would start adding one by one the most probable culprits that you NEED to take because they make a difference to you: maybe boron from bones/joints, DHEA for daily energy, magnesium l-threonate for daily energy etc.

I would not take any supplements that I never felt any positive effect from, just because internet claims they are beneficial, except to correct typical vitamin defficiencies like vit D, vit B12.

 

[DragonBits]

How do you feel otherwise beyond the sleep issue? Why not ditch the supplements long-term? That is pretty much what I did other than multi and Vit D. Don't see huge difference other than a few side effects going away which is a good thing of course.

You mean while I had the sleep issue? Because either what was causing the sleep problem or the sleep problem itself was also affecting blood pressure, as in quite high sometimes and bouncing around from normal to high. Now that still seems under control.

One good thing, my short term memory seemed to get better while I had the sleep problem. The "doorway" effect is better, where I forget what I was looking for when changing rooms, but with some effort, I can recall what it was. That is new, but I don't know if it will last.

Right now I am still adjusting to sleeping better and the absence of those supplements. My body is going through a new balance, hard to tell what that will mean.

One "normal" problem, a week ago I strained my calf muscle while treadmill running (really, run 8mph / walk 3.p mph for an hour total ~4.2 miles). Very sharp pain in calf right above achilles tendon, had to limp to the locker room, used a medical walking boot for a few days. My guess is I tore a few muscle fibers, surprising to me since my calves are very strong. Though I was using a 2% incline for the past few months, normally I use 0.5% or 1%. While the pain is mosly gone, it will get re-injure it if I stress it too much or too suddenly, need to wait a few more weeks before I try and run again.

 

[Gianluca]

CoQ10 is another supp that could have cause you the issue, especially if you were taking it later in the day.

 

[vinnylid]

Dragonbits,
Your list of supplements is similar to mine. I spread them out over the day and never take any after 6 o'clock. Then I focus on things that promote sleep. I have used Unisom for years and can't sleep without it. Unisom is a Serotonin reuptake inhibitor and uses vitamin D to convert to Melotonin, the sleep hormone. I also take an herbal sleep formula that has 3mg of Melotonin. Right now I take 5000iu of vitamin D at bedtime and another 5000iu again if I get up to pee during the night. I am 77. I don't know if supplemental vitamin D is as good as sunshine, but in winter there is no option.

 

[Vince]

CoQ10 is another supp that could have cause you the issue, especially if you were taking it later in the day.

I also at one time had an issue with CoQ10 keeping me awake. I cut way back on CoQ 10 and gradually added it back in. No more issue with sleep.

 

[DragonBits]

Dragonbits,
Your list of supplements is similar to mine. I spread them out over the day and never take any after 6 o'clock. Then I focus on things that promote sleep. I have used Unisom for years and can't sleep without it. Unisom is a Serotonin reuptake inhibitor and uses vitamin D to convert to Melotonin, the sleep hormone. I also take an herbal sleep formula that has 3mg of Melotonin. Right now I take 5000iu of vitamin D at bedtime and another 5000iu again if I get up to pee during the night. I am 77. I don't know if supplemental vitamin D is as good as sunshine, but in winter there is no option.

?? I looked up Unisom, it contains Doxylamine Succinate, an antihistamine. Are you thinking about something else?

However, I did read that Chlorpheniramine, an old antihistamine, was also selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitor. Is there something I am not seeing about Unisom?

I read on the forum some doctor preaches that vitamin D in pill form isn't good and you need sunshine, or IIRC, sun tanning lamps. I don't believe it and I would have to read an NIH study on the subject before I thought it plausible. Though in the past I have gotten my vit D levels as high as 90 ng./dl with no obvious good or bad effects.

The good thing about sunshine, the most vitamin D you can create in a day is 10,000 IU.

​

 

[DragonBits]

I also at one time had an issue with CoQ10 keeping me awake. I cut way back on CoQ 10 and gradually added it back in. No more issue with sleep.

This could have been partially about coq10, but I don't think it's enough to account how serious this had gotten.

I have been dealing with sleep issues now for at least 2.

 

[DragonBits]

I also at one time had an issue with CoQ10 keeping me awake. I cut way back on CoQ 10 and gradually added it back in. No more issue with sleep.

This could have been partially about coq10, but I don't think it's enough to account how serious this had gotten.

I have been dealing with sleep issues now for at least 2.5 years, but in the last 3 months it had gotten much worse.

Several nights I woke up with night sweats, the sheets were soaked. My blood pressure had previously been erratic, spiking up to 162/99-, but lately my baseline had been moving up and the spikes up were worse. It was even hard to fall asleep at all, and when I did, I sometimes wake up every 90 min and it was hard to fall back to sleep.

I was taking those supplements early in the AM, before 11AM, and I have been off the ones in that list now for about 6 weeks, now I sleep much better, not perfect, but before sleep was so disturbed my fitbit watch couldn't track sleep because I was moving around too much. Now my blood pressure has dropped back to ~122/77, if it spikes up on a reading it's more like 141/91 and it's temporary.

I still take magnesium, kratom, and progesterone in the evening. I will likely experiment with stopping the progesterone, the only reason I was taking that was it did help to fall asleep, just not enough to overcome whatever was going on.

Oddly, 3 months ago kratom seemed much more effective, like enhanced, so I cut back 50%. Now, it seems like it's back to "normal".

I mention the changes in kratom because that gives a hint maybe there was some sort of synergist effect. Maybe one hormone/supplement enhanced the effects of others?

I didn't see anything odd in blood tests I had gotten, but it was a standard panel, included vit D and testosterone. Nothing in there like cortisol, preg, dhea, etc.

Too bad, I had taken a 4 sample cortisol test during the worst of the sleep issues, but it got screwed up in shipping, vials with saliva popped open, so they sent me another kit, but now the problem went away. I had also made an appt with a doctor, got a script for Ambien, but at the time of the appt the sleep issues was already fading. I got the ambien anyway, but I have no idea if it would have been effective.

So likely I will never know exactly what was going on.

Honestly, I am still a little shocked about this, and I am still a little scared it might come back after some period of time.

 

[vinnylid]

Unisom markets both Doxylamine and Diphenhydramine. The Diphenhydramine is the same as Benadryl. They both are SSRI's. Diphenhydramine is a better antihistamine and Doxylamine Succinate is a better sleep aid.

 

[GreenMachineX]

This could have been partially about coq10, but I don't think it's enough to account how serious this had gotten.

I have been dealing with sleep issues now for at least 2.5 years, but in the last 3 months it had gotten much worse.

Several nights I woke up with night sweats, the sheets were soaked. My blood pressure had previously been erratic, spiking up to 162/99-, but lately my baseline had been moving up and the spikes up were worse. It was even hard to fall asleep at all, and when I did, I sometimes wake up every 90 min and it was hard to fall back to sleep.

I was taking those supplements early in the AM, before 11AM, and I have been off the ones in that list now for about 6 weeks, now I sleep much better, not perfect, but before sleep was so disturbed my fitbit watch couldn't track sleep because I was moving around too much. Now my blood pressure has dropped back to ~122/77, if it spikes up on a reading it's more like 141/91 and it's temporary.

I still take magnesium, kratom, and progesterone in the evening. I will likely experiment with stopping the progesterone, the only reason I was taking that was it did help to fall asleep, just not enough to overcome whatever was going on.

Oddly, 3 months ago kratom seemed much more effective, like enhanced, so I cut back 50%. Now, it seems like it's back to "normal".

I mention the changes in kratom because that gives a hint maybe there was some sort of synergist effect. Maybe one hormone/supplement enhanced the effects of others?

I didn't see anything odd in blood tests I had gotten, but it was a standard panel, included vit D and testosterone. Nothing in there like cortisol, preg, dhea, etc.

Too bad, I had taken a 4 sample cortisol test during the worst of the sleep issues, but it got screwed up in shipping, vials with saliva popped open, so they sent me another kit, but now the problem went away. I had also made an appt with a doctor, got a script for Ambien, but at the time of the appt the sleep issues was already fading. I got the ambien anyway, but I have no idea if it would have been effective.

So likely I will never know exactly what was going on.

Honestly, I am still a little shocked about this, and I am still a little scared it might come back after some period of time.

What kind of b12 was that? I've recently figured out methylcobalamin is no good for me due to genetic COMT mutations resulting in severe insomnia and other stimulating effects. I'm experimenting with hydroxycobalamin and adenocobalamin now.