Dr. Neal Rouizer on Thyroid Treatment

[Gene Devine]

I think Dr. Neal Rouizer is on of the leading anti aging and HRT practitioners in the country.

Listen to what he says about TSH as a measurement for thyroid health. Also, note his comments on the differences between medical communities on how they view thyroid health....and he's right.

Pay attention to his point on Free T3...this is important. Free T4 and T3 are the most important to get tested as this is where the rubber meets the road!

If you have thyroid issues and are being treated by a GP or Endo you may want to watch this video and see if you are getting the correct treatment as he will tell you why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiAGg1fc3RE

 

[Vettester Chris]

Yep, he's spot-on with his assessment of FT3.

Sadly though, even optimal FT3 levels can be misleading if the transport agents are not in place at the cellular level. Pooling can be just as problematic, which extends the need for other labs such as RT3, Cortisol and Iron/Ferritin.

 

[GettingAnswers]

My TSH was high but so was FT4 and my FT3 was normal. My doc started me on a low dose of naturethroid. He wants to run a comprehensive panel in 5 weeks that will include all those and more. Thanks for the info....yet another hormone issue I am chasing

 

[Vettester Chris]

My TSH was high but so was FT4 and my FT3 was normal. My doc started me on a low dose of naturethroid. He wants to run a comprehensive panel in 5 weeks that will include all those and more. Thanks for the info....yet another hormone issue I am chasing

This is interesting. I'd be curious if you have a link to a thread with your results and ranges? I would like to see the comparative percentage values of your FT4 and FT3, and see how much deviation there is between the values ranges of your FT4 and FT3. The deiodinase activity of your thyroid could be lagging, and sometimes some simple supplements like selenium, Kelp, & B12 (go methyl) will help promote this process. However, this could be a marker of low iron & ferritin levels, which not only effects the deiodinase process, but downstream pooling with FT3 can be a factor, and in turn this can all revert back to increased circulating concentrations of TSH, which is one of your symptoms.

Definitely make sure the various iron and ferritin assays are drawn (saturation % if possible too), and these variables are just as easily tied into the adrenals and cortisol. If pooling is a factor you will want to know your cortisol. Go with the 4x saliva test, which the gold standard for accuracy in this department (JMO on that). Canary Club in CA has a solid kit that can be sent directly to you, unless your physician or board sponsor has another lab of preference. Get it posted up in an existing or new thread, let us know, I'm sure we will have some input.
Note .. IMO, I'd talk to your physician about going a little slow on the desiccated Naturethroid dosage, maybe 1/4 grain to 1/2 grain until you know for your where these other values sit. Desiccated thyroid medication will have a significant greater T4/T3 ratio, which is good when everything is reaching the cells, not so good when it's bottlenecked due to cellular transport complications.
Sorry to hijack this Gene ... Just hoping GA will have all the tools in his hands to get the best value when making these decisions with his physician.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Getting Answers, on the T4 to T3 ratio of desiccated Naturethroid, the statement should be taken as you will see a greater amount of T3, as opposed to what a natural, healthy thyroid would produce in relation to T4 and T3 ... I believe normal at/around 20:1, your medication will probably be around the 4:1 or 5:1. You can see where this might cause a complication if various factors are not considered up front.

 

[GettingAnswers]

Wow. Thanks for the info Chris. I will get the lab values up and in the meantime I will try and delve into the amazing amount of info you just provided.

Thanks Eric

 

[GettingAnswers]

This is interesting. I'd be curious if you have a link to a thread with your results and ranges? I would like to see the comparative percentage values of your FT4 and FT3, and see how much deviation there is between the values ranges of your FT4 and FT3. The deiodinase activity of your thyroid could be lagging, and sometimes some simple supplements like selenium, Kelp, & B12 (go methyl) will help promote this process. However, this could be a marker of low iron & ferritin levels, which not only effects the deiodinase process, but downstream pooling with FT3 can be a factor, and in turn this can all revert back to increased circulating concentrations of TSH, which is one of your symptoms.

Definitely make sure the various iron and ferritin assays are drawn (saturation % if possible too), and these variables are just as easily tied into the adrenals and cortisol. If pooling is a factor you will want to know your cortisol. Go with the 4x saliva test, which the gold standard for accuracy in this department (JMO on that). Canary Club in CA has a solid kit that can be sent directly to you, unless your physician or board sponsor has another lab of preference. Get it posted up in an existing or new thread, let us know, I'm sure we will have some input.
Note .. IMO, I'd talk to your physician about going a little slow on the desiccated Naturethroid dosage, maybe 1/4 grain to 1/2 grain until you know for your where these other values sit. Desiccated thyroid medication will have a significant greater T4/T3 ratio, which is good when everything is reaching the cells, not so good when it's bottlenecked due to cellular transport complications.
Sorry to hijack this Gene ... Just hoping GA will have all the tools in his hands to get the best value when making these decisions with his physician.

To followup a little more and not try to hijack this thread, I have posted my labs on another thread I had started

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/1204-Feeling-Good?highlight=feeling+good

To briefly address some of your comments.

1. I supplement with selenium and methylcobalamin. I tried iodine in the past but I swear it made my thyroid hurt.
2. I have not checked my ferritin/iron levels. At least I cannot find any results and i assume they are not a normal part of a normal blood draw?
3. I have done the 4 panel saliva cortisol a few times this year. Beginning of the year my levels were low overall, but in August they were good.
4. My doc started me on 1/4 grain of the Naturethroid and will do a bunch of labs in 4-5 weeks.

If there is any other help you want or can provide please visit the link above. I assume that will be a better place for this!! Thanks again

 

[Dave Barry]

I found the hard way that my endocrinologist, at the University of Michigan was not treating my hypothyroidism properly. Since my values were "within range" she refused to accept the many hypothyroid symptoms that I was exhibiting. Instead, she blamed some of them on my CPAP machine, sleep problems, and my age. I told her age? I know I'm getting older, but not drastically in the last 6 months since I was changed from Armour to Synthroid. On the other hand, my sleep doctor blamed my Endocrinologist so I was getting nowhere. Finally, I decided to take my treatment in my own hands and began feeling better within 2-weeks of dumping Synthroid and changing back to Armour Thyroid. It took 2 months to get my levels to a point that I felt 100% better.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

Thyroid optimization has been one of my priorities for the last few years - and still is. I was on sustained-release T3 monotherapy for almost 3 years and last year switched to a combination of straight T3 (30mcg) and NDT (natural desiccated thyroid; 3 grains) and have been getting much better results on all markers for the first time. Both my T3 and NDT are custom-compounded which I think is the ideal way to go since I have my choice of fillers (ascorbic acid) as opposed to the unwanted and sometimes detrimental fillers as used in the commercial products (i.e. Cytomel, Armour, or Naturethroid).

In my case, the conversion from T4 to T3 was not hampered as I (and my physician) had originally thought. This confirms the importance of including T4 in consideration of the conversion pathway from T4 to T3. NDT has other benefits as well; it contains T1 and T2 which were previously thought to have no metabolic value, but in fact do. NDT also contains calcitonin which is involved in calcium metabolism, bone maintenance and prevents osteoporosis. This is important because exogenous thyroid hormones tend to decrease bone density. NDT is vastly superior to T4-only medications such as Synthroid and Levothyroxine, despite the Medical Orthodoxy's push to sway practitioners away from it. But not everyone can tolerate it as well as synthetic T4 and/or T3. This is largely due to thyroid autoimmunity and/or deficient cortisol/iron/ferritin/selenium. Once those are resolved, NDT can be slowly integrated. Let's not forget that NDT also contains rT3 as is naturally-occuring in the pig's glands as it is in our own.

Since a major cause of hypothyroidism is Hashimoto's thyroiditis, I want to add to the above-mentioned testing the importance of monitoring thyroid antibodies.

The labs are:

TgAb (thyroglobulin antibodies)
TPO (thyroid peroxidase antibodies)
TrAb (thyroid receptor antibodies)

Here's one of the best resources out there: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

 

[GettingAnswers]

So does it make sense to start on a low dose and work your way up with thyroid? Or is it like TRT where there is no start low because it shuts down your own production. I would hate to start on 1/4 grain to only have it shut down my own thyroid production and not give enough to make up for that loss.

 

[Marco N Cognito]

So does it make sense to start on a low dose and work your way up with thyroid? Or is it like TRT where there is no start low because it shuts down your own production. I would hate to start on 1/4 grain to only have it shut down my own thyroid production and not give enough to make up for that loss.

There are many myths out there about thyroid hormones causing your thyroid to stop functioning once you stop therapy. Exogenous thyroid hormone replacement is NOT like TRT or other AAS; it does not cause HPTA suppression. While it does suppress TSH (which it's supposed to do), one will gain back full function within a few weeks to a month of cessation depending on the individual.

 

[Vettester Chris]

So does it make sense to start on a low dose and work your way up with thyroid? Or is it like TRT where there is no start low because it shuts down your own production. I would hate to start on 1/4 grain to only have it shut down my own thyroid production and not give enough to make up for that loss.

GA, at the moment it's all speculation, due to not really knowing anything more than you've told us on labs. However, by what you have described, your TSH is "high", your FT4 is "high", and your FT3 is on the "normal" side. My rationale for starting out low is for the fact that your FT4 is already high and it sounds like there's no major shortage of FT3. These factors should already be triggering your TSH to lower via the feedback loop, but from what you're describing it is still high. If there's an issue with, let's say your "iron" or "cortisol", then adding a higher therapeutic dose of NDT could just backfire. IMO, get the labs first, including the antibodies and everything else mentioned above, verify the RT3/FT3 ratio, then make a sound decision on the steps to take with your physician. You can find a reference of all the labs at Stopthethyroidmadness.com. Also in the rare case of an adenoma, make sure all is in order with your HPTA.

 

[GettingAnswers]

Is the cortisol issue that it is usually too high or too low?

Thanks for all the help guys

 

[Marco N Cognito]

Is the cortisol issue that it is usually too high or too low?

Thanks for all the help guys

Too low, especially in the a.m.