Dr Crisler Now Says No Blood Donation is Needed When Hematocrit is High

[zLeeKo]

Ok,I read Dr Crisler's post on ******** yesterday, that says:

"I wish you had all seen the incredible 90 minute lecture my old pal Dr Neal Rouzier just gave at AMMG. There is absolutely no reason to perform therapeutic phlebotomies in men on TRT whose H/H rises above 18/55, as long as platelets have not risen too high. Based upon irrefutable evidence-based medicine, I am changing my practices."

While I dislike Rouzier, I highly respect Dr Crisler. But it seems he went full potato with this.


Listen to the podcast here:
http://www.trtrevolution.com/new-data-men-dont-need-phlebotomy-with-dr-john-crisler/

 

[CoastWatcher]

The objection Rouzier has to phlebotomies isn't a new one; he's held that position for some time. I wonder what now convices Dr. Crisler of the truth of the position? As an aside, Rouzier does not monior estradiol, either. So, absent more information, I'm not changing my mind. An older thread on point.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...it-and-Estradiol-Management&highlight=rouzier

 

[zLeeKo]

The objection Rouzier has to phlebotomies isn't a new one; he's held that position for some time. I wonder what now convices Dr. Crisler of the truth of the position? As an aside, Rouzier does not monior estradiol, either. So, absent more information, I'm not changing my mind. An older thread on point.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...it-and-Estradiol-Management&highlight=rouzier

Yeah, Rouzier stances always seemed like a non-sense to me. And now Crisler supports him.

I think we definitely need more data before accepting such silly conclusions .

 

[Vince Carter]

Is this referring to on the CBC, "Platelet Count" with a (Quest) range of 140-400 (thousand)/uL

 

[zLeeKo]

Is this referring to on the CBC, "Platelet Count" with a (Quest) range of 140-400 (thousand)/uL

Yeah, platelets are included in complete blood count.

 

[Vince Carter]

so he's saying it's all good as long as your platelet count is...<400K....????

 

[zLeeKo]

Yeah, if platelets are normal.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I have not seen any references that support what Crisler says on this subject.
The podcast has none. Zero.

Here are several references for high hematocrit and health problems.
Need help to convince my doctor to treat my high hematocrit

 

[Pranayama]

I cannot imagine waiting until my hematocrit went above 55 to donate blood. I do not agree with the conclusions of Dr. Rouzier.

 

[Vince Carter]

I know atleast subjectively that when I've been 55/56 that I can feel that and that I feel better after donating. I can't say its the lowering of HCT or anything else but in reveiwing my platelet counts in the past, I'm under 160/170 in the 400,000 lab range.

 

[zLeeKo]

Same. I've had high hematocrit (53) but very low platelets (thrombocytes) at around 162.

 

[Mountain Man]

I know atleast subjectively that when I've been 55/56 that I can feel that and that I feel better after donating. I can't say its the lowering of HCT or anything else but in reveiwing my platelet counts in the past, I'm under 160/170 in the 400,000 lab range.

Curious as to what you feel before you donate blood? What symptoms do you experience?

 

[Vince Carter]

Curious as to what you feel before you donate blood? What symptoms do you experience?

That we don't derail this thread how about starting a thread for your question?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Mountain Man

Here are a few symptoms associated with high hematocrit: http://www.discountedlabs.com/blog/what-you-should-know-about-the-main-side-effect-of-testosterone/

 

[Mountain Man]

Mountain Man

Here are a few symptoms associated with high hematocrit: http://www.discountedlabs.com/blog/what-you-should-know-about-the-main-side-effect-of-testosterone/

Got it! Thanks Nelson.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I've long disagreed with Rouzier's stance on estradiol and also this stance on increases in hematocrit.

You wouldn't see me walking around for too long with a HCT > 52-53.

 

[zLeeKo]

And that's why you two (Dr Saya and Nelson) are best in the game!

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here are studies that are contrary to Dr Crisler's new beliefs:

High and Low Hematocrit Increase Cardiovascular Risks

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Hematocrit may stabilize after long term testosterone replacement

 

[Will Brink]

I've long disagreed with Rouzier's stance on estradiol and also this stance on increases in hematocrit.

You wouldn't see me walking around for too long with a HCT > 52-53.

The Q is a simple one for me, what evidence is he basing the position on? A total reliance on data while ignoring clinical experience and evidence is bad, but a total reliance on clinical experience is really no better. A total reliance on clinical experience often translates into "because I said so" and that's just bad science and poor medicine.