Does depression from low testosterone feel different from "regular" depression?

[Marcel]

Hi!

I been struggling with ptsd and depression for a few years as a result of years of working as a first responder.

I sought different ways to fix it however they work temporarily. Two weeks ago I got some blood work done and my testosterone came back low the doctor referred me to a men's clinic for further investigation.

I consider myself pretty healthy. I'm 48, 5 10", 230 lbs. I don't take any meds slightly elevated cholesterol but no meds required. I could lose 10, 15 lbs.

I don't drink, smoke or use drugs (only use modafinil for the days I'm up at 3 or 4 cause I can't sleep and 1 drop of selegiline (2 a week) for the brain antiaging properties specially to protect my brain fron the damage from ptsd) I also use 25mg of dhea mon to Fri, I got tested years ago and my naturopath recommended it because my body was very low, I honestly don't feel a difference. I also take the basic vitamin combo.

My diet is hit and miss. I tend to eat more when I get anxiety. I drink 3 liters of water a day. I train 2 times a day. Weights 4 times a week, lighter weights more bodybuilding style, cardio (boxing-no sparring- or elliptical 4 to 5 times a week as well. Keep in mind is not super intense, I just break a good sweat. I'm all about preventing injuries so no crazy training.

The problem is that even though I'm active, I build muscle (I don't look like I have low t or like I need it) I don't have erection problems but I do have lack of interest in sex. The way I feel depression is a bit different, I get these bouts of sadness through out the day. It is almost like grief, like something is dying inside of me, I feel it in my head as well. I feel terrible on the way to training but I can finish my training no problem but when I'm done that gloom comes back. I have a ton of projects that are unfinished some of them are really small but can't bring myself to do them. I am wondering if that what the depressive mood from low t feels like. I know it is a hard to determine but I'll just throw it out there to see if anybody relates.


I dont have a copy of the labs and I can't remember the numbers the doctor gave me, ill try to get them from her. She said the thyroid is working great, optimal.

I'm in canada so trt is a bit different here I'm actually surprised she referred me to the clinic. @

 

[Vince]

Hi!

I been struggling with ptsd and depression for a few years as a result of years of working as a first responder.

I sought different ways to fix it however they work temporarily. Two weeks ago I got some blood work done and my testosterone came back low the doctor referred me to a men's clinic for further investigation.

I consider myself pretty healthy. I'm 48, 5 10", 230 lbs. I don't take any meds slightly elevated cholesterol but no meds required. I could lose 10, 15 lbs.

I don't drink, smoke or use drugs (only use modafinil for the days I'm up at 3 or 4 cause I can't sleep and 1 drop of selegiline (2 a week) for the brain antiaging properties specially to protect my brain fron the damage from ptsd) I also use 25mg of dhea mon to Fri, I got tested years ago and my naturopath recommended it because my body was very low, I honestly don't feel a difference. I also take the basic vitamin combo.

My diet is hit and miss. I tend to eat more when I get anxiety. I drink 3 liters of water a day. I train 2 times a day. Weights 4 times a week, lighter weights more bodybuilding style, cardio (boxing-no sparring- or elliptical 4 to 5 times a week as well. Keep in mind is not super intense, I just break a good sweat. I'm all about preventing injuries so no crazy training.

The problem is that even though I'm active, I build muscle (I don't look like I have low t or like I need it) I don't have erection problems but I do have lack of interest in sex. The way I feel depression is a bit different, I get these bouts of sadness through out the day. It is almost like grief, like something is dying inside of me, I feel it in my head as well. I feel terrible on the way to training but I can finish my training no problem but when I'm done that gloom comes back. I have a ton of projects that are unfinished some of them are really small but can't bring myself to do them. I am wondering if that what the depressive mood from low t feels like. I know it is a hard to determine but I'll just throw it out there to see if anybody relates.


I dont have a copy of the labs and I can't remember the numbers the doctor gave me, ill try to get them from her. She said the thyroid is working great, optimal.

I'm in canada so trt is a bit different here I'm actually surprised she referred me to the clinic. @

One of our main men here, madman is also from Canada. I think you should drop the DHEA. It can convert some your testosterone into estrogen. After about 6 weeks of no DHEA. I would get a complete set of labs and post them. Make sure you do your testosterone panel in the morning. That's when your levels are at its peak.

 

[Marcel]

One of our main men here, madman is also from Canada. I think you should drop the DHEA. It can convert some your testosterone into estrogen. After about 6 weeks of no DHEA. I would get a complete set of labs and post them. Make sure you do your testosterone panel in the morning. That's when your levels are at its peak.

I didn't know he is Canadian! I stopped for exactly 6 weeks before the test to get an accurate test however I did start again, you are right ill stop. My doctor was very insistent on doing it early as well, I did it early. Thanks for replying Vince!

 

[Fortunate]

100% agree with @Vince on dropping DHEA. Doing that alone may improve your mood. I took it for years, but it was only in the last year that I discovered a direct and strong correlation between taking DHEA and feeling bad.

DHEA made me really tired during the day and darkened my mood.

Let us know how this goes.

 

[Systemlord]

The problem is that even though I'm active, I build muscle (I don't look like I have low t or like I need it) I don't have erection problems but I do have lack of interest in sex.

The symptoms of low-T aren't full blown symptoms or none at all, often there is a degree of deficiency.

You're 48 years old and you're in decline.

The way I feel depression is a bit different, I get these bouts of sadness through out the day. It is almost like grief, like something is dying inside of me, I feel it in my head as well.

Testosterone increases the release of dopamine, a neurotransmitter in the brain responsible for pleasure, so as T starts going down, you get less pleasure and enjoyment out of normal daily activities and are less able to deal with normal everyday stresses.

 

[Marcel]

So in your opinion I don't have low t?

 

[excelnelg]

In general, there is not going to be a separate "feel" to depression from any one particular cause versus another.

 

[Systemlord]

I dont have a copy of the labs and I can't remember the numbers the doctor gave me

So in your opinion I don't have low t?

Canada is one of the most difficult places to get TRT and your doctor referred you to a clinic that deals with hormone related issues.

That's saying something.

I can only offer you my opinion based off your labs, which you haven't provided and even then things aren't that simple.

You can have normal testosterone, in range and still have a testosterone deficiency.

There is no generally accepted lower limit defining low testosterone.

 

[madman]

Hi!

I been struggling with ptsd and depression for a few years as a result of years of working as a first responder.

I sought different ways to fix it however they work temporarily. Two weeks ago I got some blood work done and my testosterone came back low the doctor referred me to a men's clinic for further investigation.

I consider myself pretty healthy. I'm 48, 5 10", 230 lbs. I don't take any meds slightly elevated cholesterol but no meds required. I could lose 10, 15 lbs.

I don't drink, smoke or use drugs (only use modafinil for the days I'm up at 3 or 4 cause I can't sleep and 1 drop of selegiline (2 a week) for the brain antiaging properties specially to protect my brain fron the damage from ptsd) I also use 25mg of dhea mon to Fri, I got tested years ago and my naturopath recommended it because my body was very low, I honestly don't feel a difference. I also take the basic vitamin combo.

My diet is hit and miss. I tend to eat more when I get anxiety. I drink 3 liters of water a day. I train 2 times a day. Weights 4 times a week, lighter weights more bodybuilding style, cardio (boxing-no sparring- or elliptical 4 to 5 times a week as well. Keep in mind is not super intense, I just break a good sweat. I'm all about preventing injuries so no crazy training.

The problem is that even though I'm active, I build muscle (I don't look like I have low t or like I need it) I don't have erection problems but I do have lack of interest in sex. The way I feel depression is a bit different, I get these bouts of sadness through out the day. It is almost like grief, like something is dying inside of me, I feel it in my head as well. I feel terrible on the way to training but I can finish my training no problem but when I'm done that gloom comes back. I have a ton of projects that are unfinished some of them are really small but can't bring myself to do them. I am wondering if that what the depressive mood from low t feels like. I know it is a hard to determine but I'll just throw it out there to see if anybody relates.


I dont have a copy of the labs and I can't remember the numbers the doctor gave me, ill try to get them from her. She said the thyroid is working great, optimal.

I'm in canada so trt is a bit different here I'm actually surprised she referred me to the clinic. @

Have no clue where your TT/FT, estradiol, DHT, and prolactin sit.

You need to post labs (most recent).

If you have not had blood work done recently then you need to retest your hormones.

I would look into testing TT/FT (in the early am as in 7-8) fasted and if you are into weight training then take a week off from the gym before getting your blood work done.

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, dihydrotestosterone, prolactin, DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel, salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, and CBC.

Your reply from an older thread posted on here back in 2021:

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*Yes I want to know as well, I've got ptsd and major depression potentially treatment resistant depression.



Have you ever been diagnosed with depression/MDD?

As you should know when it comes to libido let alone erectile dysfunction they are multifactorial.

Having healthy testosterone levels is beneficial to one's libido/erectile function but it is far from the only thing that is required to achieve such.

Much more involved than just having healthy testosterone levels.

Thyroid/adrenals, neurotransmitters, stress (mental/physical), quality of sleep, diet/insulin sensitivity let alone underlying vascular health can all have a big impact on one's libido/erectile function.

Unfortunately, libido/ED is much more complex than simply having healthy testosterone levels.

Suffering from depression can easily put a hamper on one's libido let alone contribute to ED.

Although trt can improve mild depression, anxiety, and overall well-being it is highly doubtful that it will have a big impact on treating MDD.

Keep in mind that even men with healthy testosterone levels can still suffer from mild, moderate, or severe depression.

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*Do not extrapolate that TTh induces remission of major depressive disorder (MDD) or augments response to antidepressant therapy

Low Testosterone in Men: Recommendations on the diagnosis, treatment and monitoring

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*TT levels have been reported to be lower in depressed men compared with non-depressed men [57]. TT is particularly low in men with severe, treatment-resistant depression [58]


Recommendation 11: depression and cognitive function

*TTh is associated with a mild reduction of depressive symptoms

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[Marcel]

Wow, @madman thank you for replying and attaching all that information for me, to be honest that's more than my doctors have done for me. As soon as I get the labs from my doctor I'll post them however I think they will be very basic.

I have been diagnosed with ptsd and depression by my family doctor, 3 psychologists and 3 psychiatrists (including one from camh)

I'm a curious about trt but I do know that It won't resolve all my problems I am also a bit worried about depending on something for the rest of my life. I also heard how it changed people's lives and that makes me curious.

I do like your approach, it is very calculated and it should be. Thanks again for takkng the time to reply and sending those resources, I will go through them carefully and as soon as I get my labs all post them.

 

[CKO]

I'll chime in. Yes TRT can help with PTSD, it assisted in calming my anger/irritability. I'm a Combat vet, diagnosed with PTSD and MDD. That being said it doesn't resolve it. For me the only major relief came from serious trauma therapy (EMDR), TMS for depression, and leaning into my Christian faith. I'm in a much better place now. Trauma never leaves the body unless it is dealt with and set down.

The question of low T causing depression or your depression causing low T is difficult to answer. TRT is helpful, but very difficult to find stability and balance with.

 

[Marcel]

Thank you @CKO , I have been doing cbt and I'm doing right now emdr but still not much improvement if any at all, been at it for 2 years. My sleep os terrible as well, im up at 2, 3 or 4 in the morning but God is good!

 

[Marcel]

I just got the report, just like I said before it is not a full panel.

Testosterone: 8.3 nmol/L ( reference range 7.6 - 31.40) it doesn't specify if it's free or total, im assuming it is total. I'm within range but on the lower side.

Hemoglobin A1c: 5.8 (Reference range <= 5.99)

Tsh: 0.62 mIU/L (reference range 0.35 - 5.00)

I got referred to an specialist, it might be a few months but Im assuming I will get better labs and a more informed opinion. I know it's not much but let me know what you guys think.

 

[madman]

I just got the report, just like I said before it is not a full panel.

Testosterone: 8.3 nmol/L ( reference range 7.6 - 31.40) it doesn't specify if it's free or total, im assuming it is total. I'm within range but on the lower side.

Hemoglobin A1c: 5.8 (Reference range <= 5.99)

Tsh: 0.62 mIU/L (reference range 0.35 - 5.00)

I got referred to an specialist, it might be a few months but Im assuming I will get better labs and a more informed opinion. I know it's not much but let me know what you guys think.

Your labs were done at Dynacare.

As you can clearly see your Total Testosterone of 8.3 nmol/L (239 ng/dL) is absurdly low.

More importantly, your FT is going to be in the gutter.

You would easily qualify for trt.

Forget about within range but on the lower end as your testosterone level is horrible.

Regarding the Canadian Testosterone Deficiency guidelines when a patient is presenting symptoms along with blood work that shows TT levels fall within what is called the grey zone TT 8-12 nmol/L then most doctors in the know would offer the patient a 6-month trial of trt.

Unfortunately, most GPs/endos/uros will turn around and tell the patient his TT levels are ok if they are borderline low/low-normal of the reference range when in fact the patient is truly suffering low-t symptoms not only due to having sub-par TT levels but more importantly low/low-normal FT levels.

Many doctors unfortunately only test for TT which is ridiculous as although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the unbound active fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Many men suffering from low-t symptoms who have borderline low/low-normal TT/FT levels are denied treatment simply because their levels fall in the reference range.

To make matters worse there are many men with descent TT levels but still have low/sub-par FT levels due to having high SHBG and unfortunately, in most cases, doctors do not test for SHBG let alone FT!

You just need to find a doctor who specializes in trt.

Easier said than done as it can be difficult finding a doctor in Canada but they are out there although far and few.

You would need a referral from your family doctor in order to seek out a 2nd opinion from a trt specialist.

Luckily you were referred to a specialist although it is hard to say if they are truly experienced when it comes to treating men for low T.

My pre-trt TT level of 11.3 nmol/L (325 ng/dL) was higher than yours which still had my FT low.

I still had a difficult time getting a referral from my GP.

Luckily I ended up being treated by a prominent urologist.

He is recognized as one of the leading figures in Canada in his field of work and was most likely one of the first to pioneer the use of subcutaneous testosterone injections for trt.

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[Systemlord]

Testosterone: 8.3 nmol/L ( reference range 7.6 - 31.40) it doesn't specify if it's free or total, im assuming it is total.

Low side, slightly low, borderline low, nonetheless you're in a disease state and you won't live a full life at these levels.

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Testosterone Threshold for Increased Cardiovascular Risk in Middle-Aged and Elderly Men: A Locally Weighted Regression Analysis - PubMed

These data showed that a testosterone threshold of 440 ng/dL was associated with increased Framingham 10-year CVD risk in middle-aged and elderly men. Poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido had an impact on the testosterone threshold for CVD risk. The threshold...

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We recommend 12.1 nmol/L as a lower limit of normal for TT level. However, due to individual differences in testosterone sensitivity some men may exhibit symptoms of hypogonadism with TT concentrations above this threshold, and may benefit from TRT.

TRT may be reasonably offered to symptomatic men with testosterone concentrations higher than 12 nmol/L based on clinical judgment, and certainly if free T concentrations are reduced.

I'm within range but on the lower side.

Unfortunately, no consensus has been reached regarding the lower TT threshold defining TD, and there are no generally accepted lower limits of normal TT [60]. This lack of consensus follows from the fact that no studies have shown a clear threshold for TT or free T that distinguishes men who will respond to treatment from those who will not.

 

[Marcel]

@Systemlord and @madman you guys are very kind and like I said before you are helping me more than my doctor did and I appreciate it, thank you! I will read all the articles provided. As soon as I speak with the specialist and get more blood work I will post it here.

I'm not holding my breath to be honest, it is very hard to find a decent doctor or specialist. And yes @madman I got my labs done at dynacare, that impressed me.

Thank you again and please feel free to continue sending info my way it is much appreciated it. There is a lot of info out there and it gets a bit confusing. I always liked the approach used by the members here at excelmale.

 

[magnus]

Another Canadian first responder here, 55 year old, 29 year professional firefighter. I'll relate my experience if it's helpful in anyway.

At 40 I was diagnosed with PTSD after suffering minor depression but some fairly significant anxiety. I was completely against any meds so dealt with it through psychological counselling and lifestyle changes.
Low T was the last thing on my radar as I was a life long gym rat, still very strong with significant muscle mass, strong libido and no other major symptoms suggesting low T.

I wasn't super, down in the dumps depressed, but simply had little interest or motivation to do much of anything. My thoughts on doing many things or engaging in new projects was, "what's the point"? I would have bouts of melancholy or sadness during the day whereas previous to that I used to be always even keeled. Never super up or super down, just content and happy with everyday life.
The more serious symptoms were anxiety. I would wake up in the middle of the night with full blown anxiety attacks or sometimes, during the day, I would think about a work related call, start to ruminate a little and bam, full blown anxiety attack. The anxiety attacks were really scary as I felt they were out of my control.

Psychological counselling helped me get my anxiety attacks under control, to a degree. Actually, more than anything, reading buddhist literature and practicing mindfulness, mediation, breathing techniques and learning to let go of things outside of my control, probably helped more than anything, to that point. However, I still had little zest for much and although full blown anxiety attacks were much less frequent or long lasting, I was still walking around in a state of heightened vigilance and anxiousness.

Throughout this time I was aware of TRT and even used to suggest it to older friends, but I just didn't think that it was an issue for me, based on my ability to maintain muscle mass and libido. It was finally my wife who convinced me to get some bloodwork done. My total T came back at very low end of normal, FT wasn't too bad and E2 was somewhat high. I don't recall all the numbers although I have a copy of the bloodwork in a file.

After filling out a questionnaire and doing bloodwork, the specialist I saw suggested TRT. I agreed and went with weekly IM injections starting at 100mg/wk. I wasn't expecting to notice much of anything.

About 4 weeks in my wife asked me how I was feeling. I thought about it for a minute and realized I hadn't had any anxiety attacks and my general level of constant low grade anxiety seemed to be greatly reduced. As the weeks went on I also noticed I seemed to feel more interested in doing things and the prospect of travelling seemed exciting again. Libido wise I didn't notice a difference, but that hadn't been much of an issue. What I did notice was increased sensitivity and more satisfactory orgasms which felt more pleasurable and intense.

As time went on the positive effects seemed to wain a little and my specialist bumped my dose to 150mg/wk. It felt like too much to me and I would get crazy muscle pumps when working out (which I liked if I'm honest) but my hematocrit jumped to 53 and I felt flushed and just not right. I dropped the dose to 120mg/wk and went to bi weekly, sub Q injections of 60mg every Mon. morning and Thurs. night. and begun to donate blood every 2-3 months.

This seems to really be the sweet spot for me where I feel physically, sexually, mentally and emotionally strong, but I don't have that flushed and full feeling I had at 150mg/wk. I honestly don't feel like I suffer PTSD anymore and I no longer ever ruminate over bad calls anymore. I still work in very busy fire hall, still respond to shitty stuff on the regular but I don't carry it like I used to. I retire next year and I'm looking forward to it, but I still love the job. Once in awhile I will get a very minor bout of anxiety, but it is infrequent and not even remotely as intense as the anxiety attacks I used to suffer before TRT. I can easily breathe my way through it and it passes within minutes and is in no way debilitating.

FWIW, I probably know at least a dozen firefighters now using TRT and it's not a magic fix for everyone. I would say about half of those guys have had similar results as I have and the other half have had less noticeable results, which speaks to the complex and individual nature of hormone balance and the ability to dial in hormones, that has been so often discussed on this forum. I would put myself in the category of one of the fortunate people that seem to have had excellent results with testosterone alone, although I do take a number of supplements including vitamin D, zinc, magnesium, C, fish oil, and probiotics.

For me, my sense of well being is really, really good and my ability to cope with work and life challenges are really strong. Testosterone may be the hormone most responsible for libido, muscle building and mood and while it has those positive effects for me, more than anything I think of it as the coping hormone. With T levels in the upper normal range, I simply cope with everything in life much better.

 

[MIP1950]

100% agree with @Vince on dropping DHEA. Doing that alone may improve your mood. I took it for years, but it was only in the last year that I discovered a direct and strong correlation between taking DHEA and feeling bad.

DHEA made me really tired during the day and darkened my mood.

Let us know how this goes.

I've experimented with DHEA many times and it always leads to lowering of my mood and irritability yet my labs(age adjusted/72, here) come in between 185 and 230. Not great at all. I like pregnenolone but I quickly gain weight and either fat or water retention around the waist. It does, however, mellow me out.

 

[Marcel]

Another Canadian first responder here, 55 year old, 29 year professional firefighter. I'll relate my experience if it's helpful in anyway.

At 40 I was diagnosed with PTSD after suffering minor depression but some fairly significant anxiety. I was completely against any meds so dealt with it through psychological counselling and lifestyle changes.
Low T was the last thing on my radar as I was a life long gym rat, still very strong with significant muscle mass, strong libido and no other major symptoms suggesting low T.

I wasn't super, down in the dumps depressed, but simply had little interest or motivation to do much of anything. My thoughts on doing many things or engaging in new projects was, "what's the point"? I would have bouts of melancholy or sadness during the day whereas previous to that I used to be always even keeled. Never super up or super down, just content and happy with everyday life.
The more serious symptoms were anxiety. I would wake up in the middle of the night with full blown anxiety attacks or sometimes, during the day, I would think about a work related call, start to ruminate a little and bam, full blown anxiety attack. The anxiety attacks were really scary as I felt they were out of my control.

Psychological counselling helped me get my anxiety attacks under control, to a degree. Actually, more than anything, reading buddhist literature and practicing mindfulness, mediation, breathing techniques and learning to let go of things outside of my control, probably helped more than anything, to that point. However, I still had little zest for much and although full blown anxiety attacks were much less frequent or long lasting, I was still walking around in a state of heightened vigilance and anxiousness.

Throughout this time I was aware of TRT and even used to suggest it to older friends, but I just didn't think that it was an issue for me, based on my ability to maintain muscle mass and libido. It was finally my wife who convinced me to get some bloodwork done. My total T came back at very low end of normal, FT wasn't too bad and E2 was somewhat high. I don't recall all the numbers although I have a copy of the bloodwork in a file.

After filling out a questionnaire and doing bloodwork, the specialist I saw suggested TRT. I agreed and went with weekly IM injections starting at 100mg/wk. I wasn't expecting to notice much of anything.

About 4 weeks in my wife asked me how I was feeling. I thought about it for a minute and realized I hadn't had any anxiety attacks and my general level of constant low grade anxiety seemed to be greatly reduced. As the weeks went on I also noticed I seemed to feel more interested in doing things and the prospect of travelling seemed exciting again. Libido wise I didn't notice a difference, but that hadn't been much of an issue. What I did notice was increased sensitivity and more satisfactory orgasms which felt more pleasurable and intense.

As time went on the positive effects seemed to wain a little and my specialist bumped my dose to 150mg/wk. It felt like too much to me and I would get crazy muscle pumps when working out (which I liked if I'm honest) but my hematocrit jumped to 53 and I felt flushed and just not right. I dropped the dose to 120mg/wk and went to bi weekly, sub Q injections of 60mg every Mon. morning and Thurs. night. and begun to donate blood every 2-3 months.

This seems to really be the sweet spot for me where I feel physically, sexually, mentally and emotionally strong, but I don't have that flushed and full feeling I had at 150mg/wk. I honestly don't feel like I suffer PTSD anymore and I no longer ever ruminate over bad calls anymore. I still work in very busy fire hall, still respond to shitty stuff on the regular but I don't carry it like I used to. I retire next year and I'm looking forward to it, but I still love the job. Once in awhile I will get a very minor bout of anxiety, but it is infrequent and not even remotely as intense as the anxiety attacks I used to suffer before TRT. I can easily breathe my way through it and it passes within minutes and is in no way debilitating.

FWIW, I probably know at least a dozen firefighters now using TRT and it's not a magic fix for everyone. I would say about half of those guys have had similar results as I have and the other half have had less noticeable results, which speaks to the complex and individual nature of hormone balance and the ability to dial in hormones, that has been so often discussed on this forum. I would put myself in the category of one of the fortunate people that seem to have had excellent results with testosterone alone, although I do take a number of supplements including vitamin D, zinc, magnesium, C, fish oil, and probiotics.

For me, my sense of well being is really, really good and my ability to cope with work and life challenges are really strong. Testosterone may be the hormone most responsible for libido, muscle building and mood and while it has those positive effects for me, more than anything I think of it as the coping hormone. With T levels in the upper normal range, I simply cope with everything in life much better.

Thank you so much for your reply. It does give me hope but at the same time I know that trt might not be all the help I need unless i try it. My ability to cope with stress has been taking a beating for years! I got mental fog, bouts of deeper depression through the day, sorrow, even though I still train and do things I just go through the motions also I have kids to look after so If I don't do it it won't get done. I even notice I want to do less than I did a year ago. I know I'm getting old but I'm not that old.

I have to see what the specialist say but to be honest I'm not getting my hopes up. My experience so far has been terrible. I guess that at that point I will do a bit more digging and take matters into my own hands, at the end of the day it's my health and it really is up to me to research and optimize it. Thank you so much for your input and I'm sorry for your struggle with ptsd but I'm glad to hear that you are doing so good.

 

[Marcel]

I've experimented with DHEA many times and it always leads to lowering of my mood and irritability yet my labs(age adjusted/72, here) come in between 185 and 230. Not great at all. I like pregnenolone but I quickly gain weight and either fat or water retention around the waist. It does, however, mellow me out.

I honestly don't feel much of a difference with dhea, I been taking it for years, I actually stopped now. I tried pregnenolone but for whatever reason it makes me more depressed. I tried it several times at different times and it's always the same thing.