DIM - Anti-androgen Clarification

[TorontoTRT]

I understand DIM helps with estrogen metabolism and balancing the good and bad estrogens, but can we somehow clarify the studies that say DIM is a potent anti-androgen?
Supposedly it binds to androgen receptors interfering with testosterone.
Can anyone comment on this?
I’ve taken 200 mg a day for about a month and can’t really say I feel different one way or another. Maybe less acne then before.

 

[Vince Carter]

DIM is a lot of bunk to a lot of people but I've not heard before that it binds preferentially to Androgen receptors

 

[Gman86]

I understand DIM helps with estrogen metabolism and balancing the good and bad estrogens, but can we somehow clarify the studies that say DIM is a potent anti-androgen?
Supposedly it binds to androgen receptors interfering with testosterone.
Can anyone comment on this?
I’ve taken 200 mg a day for about a month and can’t really say I feel different one way or another. Maybe less acne then before.

This is exactly what I’m worried about with DIM, as I’ve also read about its potential anti-androgen properties.

 

[TorontoTRT]

Employing Dietary Comparators to Perform Risk Assessments for Anti-Androgens Without Using Animal Data

"Both diindolylmethane (DIM) and resveratrol are specifically acting dietary anti-androgens."

 

[TorontoTRT]

Plant-derived 3,3'-Diindolylmethane is a strong androgen antagonist in human prostate cancer cells. - PubMed - NCBI

"Taken together with our published reports of the estrogen agonist activities of DIM, the present results establish DIM as a unique bifunctional hormone disrupter. To our knowledge, DIM is the first example of a pure androgen receptor antagonist from plants."

 

[scro]

Can anyone that confirm these studies showing that dim blocks test from attaching itself to the androgen receptors? There are at least 2 PubMed studies when focusing on DIMs effects on the prostate and cancer that it is indeed an adrogen receptor antagonist thanks

 

[TorontoTRT]

I’m gonna start taking it again and see how testosterone numbers look on the next test. Taking calcium d glucarate did not affect testosterone and might’ve lowered estrogen based on my last test.

 

[TorontoTRT]

Also found this “that mTOR is a dual regulator of anabolism and catabolism in skeletal muscle mass” So issue is also that dim inhibits mTOR signaling. So if mTOR signaling is involved in both anabolism and catabolism how would this affect bodybuilding? If it blocks anabolism it’s bad. If it blocks catabolism it’s good. What decides which path it goes if inhibited? We need to hear from bodybuilders who are natural or enhanced taking DIM, and if they saw any detrimental effects.

 

[TorontoTRT]

“Conclusions and perspectives
Our understating of mTOR regulation in both skeletal muscle hypertrophy and atrophy has been advanced in recent years. While mTOR has been appreciated as a main regulator of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle, its crosstalk with muscle atrophy inducing triggers, such as myostatin and glucocorticoids, have been studied. The diverse involvements of mTOR in maintaining skeletal muscle mass have shed light on the complexity of the role of mTOR in skeletal muscle hypertrophy and atrophy (Figure (Figure1).1). Hence, dissection of mTOR signaling provides useful potential therapeutic strategies in boosting skeletal muscle growth and preventing muscle loss.”

mTOR as a Key Regulator in Maintaining Skeletal Muscle Mass

 

[Krock]

I have read a lot of mixed ideas on DIM as well, my biggest concern with it is it effect on Mtor pathway and I cannot find through looking online if it is selective in which pathways affects? DIM (Diindolylmethane) and why it is NOT an Estrogen blocker — ATP Science
I have tried in when my e2 is high and it seemed to rally at least helo mood, not sure on labs yet. I have . script for Arimidex but I seem to be somewhat sensitive to even very low doses of it.

 

[scro]

Dim reduced my face and shoulder acne but since I take hmb and phosphatidic acid to signal mtor I'd hate for it to be turned off by taking Dim and curcumin for that matter

 

[TorontoTRT]

Guys one way to find out. Not sure how old each of you is, but let’s run a 2 month experiment. Let’s try to build as much muscle as we can taking dim and see what our results are.

 

[TorontoTRT]

If no significant gains then we know DIM is interfering with muscle hypertrophy.

 

[scro]

Dr. Crisler loved DIM and only cited it's ability to help clear bad estrogen and made no references to it being an adrogen receptor antagonist

 

[Krock]

Dim reduced my face and shoulder acne but since I take hmb and phosphatidic acid to signal mtor I'd hate for it to be turned off by taking Dim and curcumin for that matter

Interesting, I did not know that curcumin did that to Mtor, GOOD TO KNOW and thanks, that is something else I take frequently...that is a bummer. Another thing I just started taking and I don't believe it inhibits Mtor is D-Limonene. I am taking this as I have been on PPIs for years for Hiatal hernia and want to get off of them.Stopped them 5 days ago. What is a good way to get rid of the inflammation we do not want such as from disease without messing with Mtor?

 

[Krock]

Guys one way to find out. Not sure how old each of you is, but let’s run a 2 month experiment. Let’s try to build as much muscle as we can taking dim and see what our results are.

Kind of hate to risk it, even for a month,LOL. I was just off for 8 weeks with bronchitis and working back up

 

[TorontoTRT]

I’ve been off for 6 months with tennis elbow. Let’s go. Lol. It’s game time. Only way to find out is through controlled experiments.

 

[Gman86]

Dim reduced my face and shoulder acne but since I take hmb and phosphatidic acid to signal mtor I'd hate for it to be turned off by taking Dim and curcumin for that matter

So curcumin has been known to turn off, and/ or reduce Mtor?

 

[Krock]

I’ve been off for 6 months with tennis elbow. Let’s go. Lol. It’s game time. Only way to find out is through controlled experiments.

Now when it comes to the elbow issue, theraband makes a great product (golfers elbow in my case, but not from golfing from lifting) that really helps, it's called the Flexbar, I have the blue one. It really helps and I continue to use it as a preventative warm up when lifting.they have various exercises
based on area trying to fix

 

[Krock]

So curcumin has been known to turn off, and/ or reduce Mtor?

So curcumin has been known to turn off, and/ or reduce Mtor?

That's what I am seeing when googling "Curcumin Mtor".