Been doing some reading. Seems like clomid stimulates both lh and fsh production in men. Hcg only stimulates Lh. Am I wrong in thinking clomid may be a better alternative to some men than hcg when added to trt? My dr suggested a drug that is too expensive for me to stimulate fsh production, since I am not seeing all of the benefits of trt. Seems like clomid would do the same thing, much cheaper.
Clomid vs hcg
- Thread starter tmckenzie
- Start date
Austinite
Member
hCG mimics LH analog. It does not aid in secretion at the pituitary. Clomiphene is not effective enough when you're Hypothalamus and pituitary are suppressed from exogenous testosterone (counterproductive). Clomiphene can be used to restart eligible low T patients. hCG during T therapy for the betterment of your health is wise.
Gene Devine
Super Moderator
If you are not "seeing all the benefits of TRT" than something is wrong.
Can you tell us more?
Would like to see latest blood work, what you were diagnosed with and what your weekly protocol is as of now.
I would be interested to know why you're concerned that HCG does not stimulate FSH production. If it is a matter of fertility, I can personally attest (but this is just me) to the fact that while on HCG my fertility is higher than when I was hypogonadal and not using anything to address my low T. However, I personally have little understanding of what other roles FSH plays.
Energy and low libido are the trouble. All numbers are good. Has dr puzzled. Been on trt a year, biggest benefit is weight loss. The thought was that boosting fsh as I understand it would help. I did my best the first month on axion, then I plummeted. My body shut down. Seems to me like having some natural production even if low will help. I was tried on clomid alone. At first total t was 230 a month of 100 mg a day of clomid it was only at 290. So it may not do me any good at all. I do have fibromyalgia which may be bringing me down regardless of hormones. It would be great to be a healthy feeling 34 year old man for a change.
I feel for ya, man. Unfortunately, it seems like clomid won't help you much if you didn't get a significant boost at such a high dose. Even for folks who get a boost in T, it doesn't usually help libido and energy much. I'm assuming you've looked into sleep disorders, diet, thyroid, adrenals, etc?
I agree with paco, but studies like this one confuse me since they report improvements in ADAM scores using clomiphene (Clomid)
ABSTRACT
Introduction. The efficacy of oral clomiphene citrate (CC) in the treatment of male hypogonadism and male infertility (MI) with low serum testosterone and normal gonadotropin levels has been reported.
Aim. The aim of this article is to evaluate CC and testosterone gel replacement therapy (TGRT) with regard to biochemical and clinical efficacy and cost.
Main Outcome Measures. The main outcome measures were change in serum testosterone with CC and TGRT therapy, and change in the androgen deficiency in aging male (ADAM) questionnaire scores with CC therapy.
Methods. Men receiving CC or TGRT with either Androgel® 1% or Testim® 1% for hypogonadism (defined as testosterone < 300 ng/mL) or MI were included. Serum values were collected 1–2 months after treatment initiation and semi-annually thereafter. Retrospective data collection was performed via chart review. Subjective follow up of patients receiving CC was performed via telephone interview using the ADAM questionnaire.
Results. A hundred and four men (65 CC and 39 TGRT) were identified who began CC (50 mg every other day) or TGRT (5 g). Average age (years) was 42(CC) vs. 57 (TGRT). Average follow up was 23 months (CC, range 8–40 months) vs. 46 months (TGRT, range 6–149 months). Average posttreatment testosterone was 573 ng/dL in the CC group and 553 ng/dL in the TGRT group (P value < 0.001). The monthly cost of Testim® 1% (5 gm daily) is $270, Androgel® 1% (5 gm daily) is $265, and CC (50 mg every other day) is $83. Among CC patients, the average pretreatment ADAM score was 4.9 vs. 2.1 at follow up (P < 0.05). Average pretreatment ADAM sexual function domain score was 0.76 vs. 0.23 at follow up (P < 0.05). There were no adverse events reported.
Conclusion. CC represents a treatment option for men with hypogonadism, demonstrating biochemical and clinical efficacy with few side effects and lower cost as compared with TGRT.
Taylor F, and Levine L. Clomiphene citrate and testosterone gel replacement therapy for male hypogonadism: Efficacy and treatment cost. J Sex Med 2010;7:269–276.
Very interesting. We seem to learn new things everyday. As far as I am concerned, I am doing much better since I got on arimidex 1 mg a day. Waiting on blood work to see where my e level is at but roughly three weeks in, I still have a few issues, but I would say about 90 percent better than when I posted above. And I am thankful for it. I was about to give up trt for good.
I will update that my estradiol levels came back tanked on 1 mg of arimidex per day. But I have never felt better. I think there is way more to learn about estradiol and how it reacts in some men. Dr wants me to ease up and let the level come up some but if I get side effects like I was having, I would rather live with the level tanked. I am extremely sensitive to estradiol it seems. Test came back on sensitive as less than 3. But no low e symptoms. I only get what I have read as tanked ump toms with normal levels.
GettingAnswers
Member
1mg a day is a crazy high dose. I'm surprised you felt good on that dose with your levels tanked. You are right, there is a lot to learn.
bruin
Active Member
I see my Dr tomorrow, actually a substitute as my reg Dr is out for the next 2 mos, so just read up on some notes form my last visit and they are going to recommend clomid for testicular atrophy. I have been on hcg for 4-5 weeks. Experiencing overall very positive results, great energy, nice sex drive, great sleep, genital and testicular is in moderatly increasing and ejaculate volume is up.
Why would I agree to switch to CLomid?
my most recent test results, Testosterone Free 24 Result (Ref 0-30) performed by equilibrium dialysis
Testosterone Bioavail 294 H ( Ref 50-190) differential precipitation
Testostoerone Total 920 Result ( Ref 240-950) liquid chromatography
Performed by Mayo Labs
Why would I agree to switch to CLomid?
my most recent test results, Testosterone Free 24 Result (Ref 0-30) performed by equilibrium dialysis
Testosterone Bioavail 294 H ( Ref 50-190) differential precipitation
Testostoerone Total 920 Result ( Ref 240-950) liquid chromatography
Performed by Mayo Labs
Gene Devine
Super Moderator
These "Doctor's" don't know what they are doing.
Clomid is not a long term therapy and doesn't act the same way HCG does.
HCG is the only peptide, long term, that will prevent testicular atrophy along with a host of other things.
Why do you think all of the top TRT Doc's in this great land of ours prescribe it?
Because it works, that's why.
Don't agree to it; stick to the HCG and be done with it.
bruin
Active Member
Thank You Gene !
This is very timely response, I am very pleased with my progress and you guys and this site are a wealth of support and information. My regimen is getting on track and I feel like a new man. I am prepared to stand my ground, have fired 3 dr's since the first of the year.
Duane
This is very timely response, I am very pleased with my progress and you guys and this site are a wealth of support and information. My regimen is getting on track and I feel like a new man. I am prepared to stand my ground, have fired 3 dr's since the first of the year.
Duane
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Great to hear, Duane! We are here to help each other. This kind of posts makes it all worthwhile.
Gene Devine
Super Moderator
It sure does make it worthwhile...but more importantly, glade to see you managing your health, educating yourself and managing your Doctor's the way you are...and you see the benefits of that.
Good for you man and stay active in the forums...this is the place to be if you are man
Good for you man and stay active in the forums...this is the place to be if you are man
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