CARRIER OIL & HIGH HCT

Derrickbriand

New Member
Hello, first time user here,

I’ve lurked over a few of the posts here and couldn’t find much of a straight answer & really do need help with this.

The past few months I have been dealing with high HCT/HGB/RBC when prior I didn’t have much of an issue like this

Hgb 18
HCT 54
RBC 6.10
80mg split into 3 doses mwf

The only difference in my protocol is that I switched carrier oils from grapeseed oil to MCT oil, is there any way that this is possible to raise my blood markers??? I didn’t think it would actually make a difference but I could be wrong.

I appreciate any insight on this
 
Hello, first time user here,

I’ve lurked over a few of the posts here and couldn’t find much of a straight answer & really do need help with this.

The past few months I have been dealing with high HCT/HGB/RBC when prior I didn’t have much of an issue like this

Hgb 18
HCT 54
RBC 6.10
80mg split into 3 doses mwf

The only difference in my protocol is that I switched carrier oils from grapeseed oil to MCT oil, is there any way that this is possible to raise my blood markers???
I didn’t think it would actually make a difference but I could be wrong.

I appreciate any insight on this

No.

You are leaving out some critical info here!

How long have you been on TTh?

Where does your trough (lowest point) before your next injection TT and more importantly trough FT level sit?

Seeing as you are injecting 3X weekly (M/W/F) then your true trough would be Monday morning (72 hrs) post-injection.

Elevated RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit are one of the most common side effects of testosterone therapy especially when using exogenous T formulations which result in high steady-state/trough FT levels.

Not only do the supraphysiological peaks play a role but more importantly having elevated FT levels 24/7.

Most struggling with such bloodmarkers are running too high a trough/steady-state FT level.

Other underlying factors such as sleep apnea, smoking, asthma, COPD can have a negative impact on hematocrit.

Top it off that being dehydrated before getting blood work done can skew the results.

It is critical that one is hydrated (fluids/electrolytes) days before not just the day of otherwise results will be skewed.

Also need to keep in mind that when using exogenous T RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit will increase within the 1st month and can take anywhere from 6-9 months and in some cases up to a year to reach peak levels.

Whether one is starting testosterone therapy or tweaking a protocol (increasing dose of T) where your hematocrit sits 1 let alone 3 months in is not where it will end up 6-9 months later!

Unfortunately many lack the understanding here when it comes to how exogenous T works.




Look over the threads in post #6





post #6


Regarding those struggling with high hematocrit here is my reply from another thread:

As you can see your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit is elevated which is a common side-effect when using exogenous T, especially when running higher FT levels let alone peak--->trough levels can have a significant impact.

When using exogenous T RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit will increase within the 1st month and can take anywhere from 6-12 months to reach peak levels.

T formulation, the dose of T, genetics (polymorphism of the AR), age all play a role in the impact a trt protocol will have on blood markers (RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit).

Other factors such as sleep apnea, smoking, asthma, COPD can have a negative impact on hematocrit.

Injectable T has been shown to have a greater impact on increasing HCT compared to transdermal T.

3–18% with transdermal administration and up to 44% with injection.

In most cases when using injectable T high supra-physiological peaks post-injection and overall T levels (running too high TT/FT level) will have a big impact on increasing HCT.

Manipulating injection frequency by injecting more frequently using lower doses of T resulting in minimizing the peak--->trough and maintaining more stable levels may lessen the impact on HCT but it is not a given.

As again running very high TT/FT levels will have a stronger impact on driving up HCT.

Although injectables have been shown to have a greater impact on HCT you can see even when using a transdermal formulation that maintains stable serum concentrations that the impact it has on HCT is DEPENDANT ON THE DOSE AND SERUM LEVEL OF T.

Using higher doses of transdermal T and achieving higher TT/FT levels will have a great impact on HCT levels.

How high an FT level you are running is critical.

It is a given that most men on trt struggling with elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit are running too high an FT level.

Sure some men are more sensitive than others as they may still struggle with elevated blood markers when running lower T levels but it is far from common and many may already have an underlying health issue contributing to such.

If you are struggling with such blood markers then in most cases finding the lowest FT level you can run while still maintaining the beneficial effects may very well be the solution.

Easier said than done as many men on trt tend to do better running higher-end FT levels within reason.

Mind you some are lucky and never have an issue or levels tend to stabilize over time.

Others will continue to struggle until the cows come home.

Unfortunately too many are caught up in running absurdly high trough FT levels due to the herd mentality spewed on the bro forums and gootube!
 
During my first 2 years of TRT, I donated blood every 8 weeks to control my HCT. After that I went to daily injections and I no longer had to donate. It's been over 8 years here since I donated blood. I don't know if it was because of daily's or longevity.

 
If the increase was recognized only by a single test after switching then I would put less weight in the results. We always hear about how hydration levels can affect hematocrit readings, and I think there are other factors that can skew results as well. I mentioned it in the past on here, but I did bloodwork for Defy because I was due for my annual bloodwork, and that year it also happened to coincide with my annual physical from my primary care doctor.

Prior to the Defy bloodwork I made sure I was as hydrated as possible and my levels were around 52 or 53( I can get the exact numbers if you’d like). That was on a Friday morning. The following Monday I did bloodwork with my regular doc. Also note that I made no attempts to ensure hydration before my Monday draws and had actually drank on both Sat. and Sun., which should’ve resulted in a more dehydrated state. But my results from my primary care doc were less than 50, so about a 3 point drop in 3 days despite being less hydrated. The only thing I can think of is that the blood drawn on Fri. may have lowered levels, but it was a minimal amount and I would not expect that big of a difference from such a small amount of blood drawn. In fact, Defy asked me to donate blood and retest(which I would’ve pushed back on if they insisted). But I simply sent over my bloodwork from my primary care and they accepted it as proof that my levels were in an acceptable range, which they were. All in a matter of three days despite being less hydrated.

All that to say, as with most things, take an individual test with a grain of salt. Unless you experience symptoms and are confident you can accurately attribute them to something specific, then I’d recommend waiting for trends to emerge in blood tests before jumping to conclusions. They are just a snapshot after all, and there are lots of things that can impact results, quite possibly many things we don’t even fully understand.
 
No.

You are leaving out some critical info here!

How long have you been on TTh?

Where does your trough (lowest point) before your next injection TT and more importantly trough FT level sit?

Seeing as you are injecting 3X weekly (M/W/F) then your true trough would be Monday morning (72 hrs) post-injection.

Elevated RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit are one of the most common side effects of testosterone therapy especially when using exogenous T formulations which result in high steady-state/trough FT levels.

Not only do the supraphysiological peaks play a role but more importantly having elevated FT levels 24/7.

Most struggling with such bloodmarkers are running too high a trough/steady-state FT level.

Other underlying factors such as sleep apnea, smoking, asthma, COPD can have a negative impact on hematocrit.

Top it off that being dehydrated before getting blood work done can skew the results.

It is critical that one is hydrated (fluids/electrolytes) days before not just the day of otherwise results will be skewed.

Also need to keep in mind that when using exogenous T RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit will increase within the 1st month and can take anywhere from 6-9 months and in some cases up to a year to reach peak levels.

Whether one is starting testosterone therapy or tweaking a protocol (increasing dose of T) where your hematocrit sits 1 let alone 3 months in is not where it will end up 6-9 months later!

Unfortunately many lack the understanding here when it comes to how exogenous T works.




Look over the threads in post #6





post #6


Regarding those struggling with high hematocrit here is my reply from another thread:

As you can see your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit is elevated which is a common side-effect when using exogenous T, especially when running higher FT levels let alone peak--->trough levels can have a significant impact.

When using exogenous T RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit will increase within the 1st month and can take anywhere from 6-12 months to reach peak levels.

T formulation, the dose of T, genetics (polymorphism of the AR), age all play a role in the impact a trt protocol will have on blood markers (RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit).

Other factors such as sleep apnea, smoking, asthma, COPD can have a negative impact on hematocrit.

Injectable T has been shown to have a greater impact on increasing HCT compared to transdermal T.

3–18% with transdermal administration and up to 44% with injection.

In most cases when using injectable T high supra-physiological peaks post-injection and overall T levels (running too high TT/FT level) will have a big impact on increasing HCT.

Manipulating injection frequency by injecting more frequently using lower doses of T resulting in minimizing the peak--->trough and maintaining more stable levels may lessen the impact on HCT but it is not a given.

As again running very high TT/FT levels will have a stronger impact on driving up HCT.

Although injectables have been shown to have a greater impact on HCT you can see even when using a transdermal formulation that maintains stable serum concentrations that the impact it has on HCT is DEPENDANT ON THE DOSE AND SERUM LEVEL OF T.

Using higher doses of transdermal T and achieving higher TT/FT levels will have a great impact on HCT levels.

How high an FT level you are running is critical.

It is a given that most men on trt struggling with elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit are running too high an FT level.

Sure some men are more sensitive than others as they may still struggle with elevated blood markers when running lower T levels but it is far from common and many may already have an underlying health issue contributing to such.

If you are struggling with such blood markers then in most cases finding the lowest FT level you can run while still maintaining the beneficial effects may very well be the solution.

Easier said than done as many men on trt tend to do better running higher-end FT levels within reason.

Mind you some are lucky and never have an issue or levels tend to stabilize over time.

Others will continue to struggle until the cows come home.

Unfortunately too many are caught up in running absurdly high trough FT levels due to the herd mentality spewed on the bro forums and gootube!
Thank you for this reply!! I appreciate it.

My total T during trough would be 621
Free T 118. Have been on Trt for about 8 months. E2 sits about 37

The past few months my HCT/Hgb have been in normal ranges then after switching to a new carrier oil is the only difference in my protocol.

The past month and half I have had a couple blood tests for hct and they have just been consistently getting higher and higher every test. I have started taking naringin 500mg daily. I check my blood pressure frequently and it’s usually pretty good. I don’t really feel anything other than the test just coming back high.

I have seen a few posts on here though claiming that certain test has made other people’s HCT higher on average than their normal brand.
 
Thank you for this reply!! I appreciate it.

My total T during trough would be 621
Free T 118. Have been on Trt for about 8 months. E2 sits about 37


The past few months my HCT/Hgb have been in normal ranges then after switching to a new carrier oil is the only difference in my protocol.

The past month and half I have had a couple blood tests for hct and they have just been consistently getting higher and higher every test. I have started taking naringin 500mg daily. I check my blood pressure frequently and it’s usually pretty good. I don’t really feel anything other than the test just coming back high.

I have seen a few posts on here though claiming that certain test has made other people’s HCT higher on average than their normal brand.

My total T during trough would be 621
Free T 118. Have been on Trt for about 8 months. E2 sits about 37


Need to know what testing method/reference range was used for free testosterone or where your SHBG sits.

The carrier oil will have no impact on driving up your hematocrit.




The past month and half I have had a couple blood tests for hct and they have just been consistently getting higher and higher every test.

You have been on therapy for roughly 8 months and 6.5 months in your HCT has been increasing.

Again when starting therapy or tweaking a protocol (increasing dose of T) hematocrit will start rising within the 1st month and can take anywhere from 6-9 months or longer (1 yr) to reach peak levels so it is not a given that where your hematocrit sat 6-6.5 months in is where it will settle.

Hard to pinpoint the cause here.

Are you self treating with UGL gear or using compounded T?
 
My total T during trough would be 621
Free T 118. Have been on Trt for about 8 months. E2 sits about 37


Need to know what testing method/reference range was used for free testosterone or where your SHBG sits.

The carrier oil will have no impact on driving up your hematocrit.




The past month and half I have had a couple blood tests for hct and they have just been consistently getting higher and higher every test.

You have been on therapy for roughly 8 months and 6.5 months im your HCT has been increasing.

Again when starting therapy or tweaking a protocol (increasing dose of T) hematocrit will start rising within the 1st month and can take anywhere from 6-9 months or longer (1 yr) to reach peak levels so it is not a given that where your hematocrit sat 6-6.5 months in is where it will settle.

Hard to pinpoint the cause here.

Are you self treating with UGL gear or using compounded T?
Pharmacy T, the past few months been stable at 16.2-16.7 then all of a sudden increase in hct to 18.

SHGB is 25

Free T reference range is 35-155

My free T trough is 118.

I have recently dropped my dose to 70mg to try and combat the rising and HCT when I got results back today have been the highest it ever was.


I have felt the best I have felt in a long time and I don’t really want to stop but I don’t know what else to do at this point!

Thanks for taking the time to reply
 
Pharmacy T, the past few months been stable at 16.2-16.7 then all of a sudden increase in hct to 18.

SHGB is 25

Free T reference range is 35-155

My free T trough is 118.

I have recently dropped my dose to 70mg to try and combat the rising and HCT when I got results back today have been the highest it ever was.


I have felt the best I have felt in a long time and I don’t really want to stop but I don’t know what else to do at this point!

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Luckily your FT was tested using what would be considered the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.

Your trough FT 3 days post-injection is far from high and yes your peak TT and more importantly FT will be higher but nothing to fret over.

If anything you could try going to dailies and clipping the peak--->trough but I would not have lowered your dose further (70 mg ) as you do not need to worry about your not so stellar trough 11. 8 ng/dL.

FT <5 ng/dL would be considerd low.

FT 5-9 ng/dL would be considered the grey zone where some men may experience symptoms of low-T.

FT 10-15 ng/dL would be healthy.

FT 20-25 ng/dL would be high-end/high.

The majority of men will do well with a trough FT 15-25 ng/dL depending on the injection frequency.

Need to keep in mind that there is a big difference between one running a high-end/high trough FT 20-25 ng/dL injecting daily vs twice-weekly vs once weekly.

Also going to be a big difference in peak--->trough on said protocol!

Many tend to overlook this and gun for a high-end/high trough FT only to end up struggling with sides especilly in the long run.





 

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